Lauren Martino: Welcome to Library Matters, I am Lauren Martino and I am here with my co-host David Payne.
David Payne: Hello.
Lauren Martino: And today we have a special episode on travel. I am here today with Assistant Director for Facilities and ADA Rita Gale.
Rita Gale: Hello.
Lauren Martino: And director of marketing for Visit Montgomery Cory Van Horn.
Cory Van Horn: Hi there, thank you for having me.
Lauren: So Rita is an avid traveler and has been to many places particularly national parks and soon she will be retiring and have lots and lots of time for new adventures. And Cory Van Horn is an authority on travel and particularly in our area and knows a lot about the tourism spots in Montgomery County that you really should know about, is that about accurate?
Cory: That’s pretty accurate, it is a choose your own adventure experience here at Montgomery County.
Lauren: Alright. So Rita, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and some of your traveling adventures?
Rita: Sure, I am a resident obviously of Maryland, Montgomery County, I live in Rockville. And I was born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri. I got interested in actually traveling specifically to the national parks because I went to on a cruise to Alaska and visited Denali National Park which is one of the largest national parks in the country and that got me hooked on traveling in national parks. So I have visited many of the national parks. I will be taking a trip in September to the Utah parks which means that I will be visiting Bryce which is my favorite park in all the world. The Zion which I have only spent a day in and then Arches, Canyonlands and Capitol Reef and will end in Monument Valley where we will see the Mittens and if we are there at the right time, we might see one reflected on the other.
David: Is that an organized tour or do you go individually and roam around?
Rita: No I go with my sister, she and I travel together and usually I plan the trips and we drive. So we don’t generally take tours.
Lauren: Is planning trips generally easier or harder than what you do from day to day, it sounds like you probably have a lot of skills that would transfer?
Rita: Well I would say that that is very true. Yes, actually planning is for me when I was working and am working, it is actually the hardest part is finding the time to do it, but I really enjoy planning and we obviously have great resources which we will be talking about shortly. And obviously the website, the national parks, service, etc., they are just great tools to use to actually plan trips to particularly national parks.
Lauren: What is it about National Parks that attracts you?
Rita: Well for me because I work long hours; going to a national park is partly just the serenity of being out in nature. And one of the great things for me for a national park, I don’t know that this is true for everybody is that once you go into a national park your cell phone doesn’t work, so literally you are sort of out there by yourself, you don’t hear what’s happening in the news, so literally you are disconnected and it is just great because nobody is walking around with their cell phones looking at things they are actually looking at nature, so.
Lauren: That’s amazing I didn’t know.
Rita: I find that very relaxing and I love seeing the variety of scenery that this country has in terms of the different kinds of national parks as well. So it’s a great experience to have with somebody else. I think it is great to travel with somebody when you are traveling to the national parks as well.
David: So it’s almost like a natural digital detox.
Rita: Yes, you are correct yes.
Lauren: Have you been to them all yet or are you trying to see them all?
Rita: No and there are more than gosh a 100 national parks. And I know that there are many people who actually make that their lives work to actually visit them all, I am just trying to get around to enough of them while I am still able to be mobile and everything to enjoy them. So I have visited mostly national parks on the west coast.
David: Well Cory from national parks to Visit Montgomery, you are making history today as our very first non-MCPL guest.
Cory: Wow, I feel so honored.
David: Representing Visit Montgomery, so tell us a bit about Visit Montgomery certainly the website is very well designed and informative. Do you have a tourism office, how are you set up, how do you work and basically what is --?
Cory: What is Visit Montgomery? Visit Montgomery is the official tourism office, tourism, it’ in the industry it’s known as a Destination Marketing Organization. So we are a non profit organization that our primary goal and mission is to bring visitors to Montgomery County and to celebrate all the amazing attractions and happenings that are going on around Montgomery County. We do have a tourism office we are actually co-sharing office suite with Economic Development and also Worksource Montgomery. So it is a lot of fun to have three different organizations, we all have some missions and our passion for Montgomery County, but have different you know audience per se. And it is just a lot of fun you know to kind of be creative with all them.
Lauren: So Cory there is a lot of small business owners in this area who kind of thrive off of individual restaurants and things, what would you be able to say to anybody with a business that would be of interest to tourists, some resources you have to promote what they do?
Cory: So small businesses have various opportunities, they can buy into a partnership program with us. And essentially what it does is it provides them with marketing expertise and promotional opportunities, networking events throughout the year. Hotels buy into the program as well because they want to connect with various groups and marketing efforts and it is a way to get listed in our website, be promoted through our social media channels and things like that. We find that particularly with small businesses, smaller attractions, restaurants of those types, they really find value in what we offer because not only are we providing support and services to a unique set of audience members, visitors, people who are not residents per se, but also because they have small to no marketing teams themselves and so they kind of view us as an extension of their marketing efforts.
David: So Rita as you head west to celebrate your retirement are there any particular resources that you are using to plan to journey and in addition to print travel guides are there any library resources that you might recommend for travel planning?
Rita: Well one of the things that I do for the national parks is I always visit the national park site. We also have travel guides in our collection and I usually check to see if the national park that I am interested has Informers guide, a Fodor’s guide, we also have Moon Handbooks as one of our guides or Lonely Planet. And there are standards for all of the national parks that I will look at for example Fodor’s is the complete guide to the national park of the west and there is also the geographic guide to national parks which has information about all of the parks in it.
In terms of electronics in addition to the website we have obviously electronic sources available through the Gale Virtual Reference Library. I found one this weekend when I was looking, when I was preparing for this that’s called DK Eyewitness Guides and Rough Guides which actually has information about various places to travel. And there are also e-Magazine is available on travel through RBdigital including Conde Nast Traveller, Lonely Planet Travel, and National Geographic Traveler; so we have tons of resources on travel.
David: There you have it, so lots of good resources on travel with MCPL.
Lauren: Do you have a favorite go to, for planning?
Rita: Well because we have a variety of different kinds of travel guides, I would probably mostly use the website, the national park website, but I do try to find at least one travel guide that focuses on a specific national park and Fodors, Informers, and Moon tend to do that more than the others. So I wouldn’t say I have one specific one because not all of those resources do all of the national parks.
David: And a sort of follow-up question for actually, possibly for you both, there are so many different publishers of travel guides and they all have their own style, what are the elements that would make up a perfect travel guide for you both?
Rita: Well for me usually I am going to a location that I haven’t been to before, so for me a travel guide that is all inclusive, that talks about okay what is the nearest airport that I fly into to get there, you know how do you get to the park, so is there rail travel or is it car travel. And then in national park what are the things to be seen there, is there lodging, some of the national parks have lodging within the park, some of them don’t. And quite a few the Frommers, Fodors do that do, but some of the guides that are out there are more about the experience of being in the park that they are about individuals who have been to a park and who talk about their experience. And I like to do that myself to actually have the experience so I am more about literally okay give me the facts so that I can plan the trip.
Lauren: You don’t want Bill Bryson’s take on it, before you go.
Cory: Which is interesting because I actually take an opposite stance on that where I look towards for planning and logistics more of the digital resources, because things change so quickly you know by the time a book gets printed, a restaurant could close or an attraction could be opened and things like that. I really look towards memoir as a way of being inspired by a location and it helps in terms of kind of seeing through their eyes and then being inspired to have similar, if not new experiences myself.
David: Great, thank you.
Lauren: So Cory I don’t know if there are a lot of memoirs about places in Montgomery County, but what are some of the most popular destinations right here that you would like to highlight?
Cory: In terms of attractions here at Montgomery County there are so many, I have mentioned this earlier in chatting that we really are a truly a choose your own adventure experience where you can have an downtown urban experience and then have a completely different up county, very country experience within 10 minutes, it’s really amazing. Our biggest attraction that locals don’t fully you know, know I think, but then also they know about it, but they don’t know is we have 93,000 acre Ag reserve. And not many people in the country can say that that we have that kind of resource and reserve. So people can go and go to Butler’s Orchard and pick your own fruits and they have various festivals throughout the year or go to Rocklands Farm and enjoy a wonderful glass of wine in the country or Waredaca and have a beautiful experience on a horse farm and drink some beer you know freshly brewed beer which is awesome, but then go down to Bethesda or the new Pike & Rose and have a very downtown urban experience all within the same day, so it’s amazing.
And then also it’s a very historic area our proximity to DC there is a lot of history involved with that. The C&O Canal, the Great Falls Tavern Visitor Center which is currently under renovation right now, the center itself isn’t, but the canal is. And so I actually visited recently and it was all tore up, so we will have to revisit that one when it is finished, but I am sure it is going to be amazing. And then interesting enough in terms of the canal, you can actually stay, I don’t know if you know this you can actually stay in a lockhouse which is really cool. So there are several lockhouses I believe, there is eight or nine along the canal that are renovated within the period when the lockhouse was built, so to speak. So some of them are fairly primitive where there isn’t running water so some of them there are running water in facilities. And so it’s just a great way to experience history in a different way.
Lauren: Do they still have those boats that are like drawn by the donkeys?
Cory: They do actually and the main one here in the county is actually at the Great Falls Tavern Visitor Center, they are not running it this year because of the refurbishment of the canal, but it is a very popular experience. I spoke with a park ranger and they said that last year we had more visitors for the canal than the Grand Canyon, so it’s super popular.
David: So Cory, this is a two part question from your marketing work, what are the trends that you are seeing in terms of travel, holidaying, leisure time and so on that help direct your marketing efforts. And secondly, can you give us a brief snap shot of the visitors that come to Montgomery County whether they come from what sort of profile would you give to them?
Cory: Absolutely, I have worked in travel marketing my whole career and the first thing that you do is you want to look at what the destination offers. And in this particular case again our proximity to DC and the fact that we have a Metro system that runs right through the county and connects you right into DC that’s a big factor and people are choosing Montgomery County to come visit, but what we are finding is that people tend to plan a trip to Washington DC, look around, they are a little nervous about the high energy that DC has, the big city experience so to speak.
Lauren: That’s one way of putting it.
Cory: And they are looking for a place that’s comfortable. And all the research that we do in terms of understanding our visitors that’s what they look for is, they look for a comfortable experience. So we find that visitors come here, they feel comfortable, you know they see the value and what Montgomery County offers and then they do the day trips into DC, they do all the fun stuffs and then once the Smithsonian close at 5 or 5:30, they come back here and have a good time, so it’s great.
In terms of trends, it’s culinary experiences anything where an experience relates to the localness of the community, food is the ultimate local experience, because it ties to memory you know it’s very relatable, it’s almost the universal language if you will. And that’s the beauty of Montgomery County is we are so diverse, we have over 1000 different restaurants and it is a great way to get that experience along the way. Weekend getaways is very popular, particularly people who are located within a three to four hour driving radius of Montgomery County so that takes you as far out as Pittsburgh up to New York City down to Richmond and then there is the direct flights from the three major airports we are perfectly positioned between PWI, Dallas and Reagan and those direct flights are coming out from Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, so it is a great easy weekend getaway experience.
David: Great, thank you.
Lauren: Rita do you look for these foods, for these memory when you are out, choosing your destination or is there something else that allows you to choose one national park over another, one destination over another?
Rita: Well I will say that in terms of food in the national parks, it is a little limited, because usually the national parks have a lodge and it has a restaurant in it. So I will say that Bryce which we are going to visit in September is one of the lodge there and the restaurant that they have there had some of the best food that I ever ate in a national park.
Lauren: Where is Bryce?
Rita: So Bryce is probably about 3 hours from Las Vegas in Utah. And it’s a park that you go down into that has what they call hoodoos which are spires made out of red sandstones so they are spectacular in the sunlight. And obviously it is a walking park or hiking park, but some of the parks are more either looking up in the case of Bryce you are looking down. But in terms of other food experiences because I do the national parks mostly, I have to say I don’t remember too much about other food experiences with them so.
David: That might say a lot.
Lauren: But is there is a reason you would choose one park over another or what do you look for when you are choosing a destination?
Rita: Well because I am primarily, I have to say that most of my vacations have been to the national parks, because I really love the concept of the national parks and I have already talked about you know the solitude, the fact that you can enjoy nature that you can actually have an experience, you can enjoy with somebody else. In terms of the national parks, we have gone mostly to the ones on the West Coast because of the scenery, the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore we have been to. And so I don’t necessarily have a specific criteria for the national parks other than I am usually looking for, I happen to like mountain, valleys, wild flowers, that sort of thing, so nothing against the everglades, but that is not a park that I actually decided to go to, but I have been to certainly to Charleston and Fort Sumter, so for me it’s just the variation also that the national parks bring. So I will probably see many of them, but not necessarily all of them.
Lauren: Cory you also specialize in culinary tourism, is that correct?
Cory: It’s true, believe it or not I actually have a master’s degree in that yeah, so for me eating is a research.
Lauren: Is that really a fun degree to get?
Cory: It was absolutely, most of my friends are in software or in accounting and we are all getting our graduate degrees kind of around the same time and you know I just remember having conversations with them about, “Oh I have to do all these projects and you know what project are you doing?” I am like, “Well I have to eat at four different barbeque restaurants and write a paper on it,” it was a lot of fun so. My master’s degree is from Chatham University based in Pittsburgh and its part of their Falk School of Sustainability. And so it is a Masters in Food Studies and my research focus was culinary Tourism and Sustainable Community Development is what I focused on. So I actually have the credentials to eat. A big part of that was tourism development really looking and understanding what a community has to offer and developed either tours around it or various tourist attractions, so it was a lot of fun along the way.
Lauren: And what, do you have any special culinary experiences in Montgomery County you would like to share or think our audience should know about?
Cory: Well I think the brewery and winery scene here is really starting to flourish and it’s a very unique way to experience, it’s more than just you know drinking a beer, it’s the whole experience like Waredaca Brewing Company being on a horse farm and gathering together. And what is really interesting to me is, it is not just for adults like these are family type areas where you can bring your kids and you can have a picnic and just have a good time and just hang out. Those are very memorable, my favorite restaurant so far is I am fan of you know after work having a beverage and having appetizers, so I tend to go like Clyde’s at Tower Oaks Lodge.
Lauren: I love Clyde’s.
Cory: Yeah it’s a lot of fun. I have a regular go to server that I always happen to sit in their section, I don’t know if his real name is Phil, but I call him Phil, so it’s a lot of fun.
Lauren: Shout out to Phil.
Cory: Philip you are going to make my martinis, oh it’s a lot of fun. And all the various festivals that happen in downtown Silver Spring, the various food festivals, the Taste of Wheaton is a great memorable experience, so it is a lot of fun.
Lauren: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Lisa Navidi: Looking for a way to use that new Kindle or to check out a book without having to leave the house, look no further than MCPL’s e-books. All you need is a library card and you can read on your e-Reader, tablet, smart phone or a computer; the latest bestsellers, old classics, kids books, how-to manuals, travel guides and much more are available at the touch of your finger tips. And after three weeks they return themselves without you having to lift a finger. If you need help getting started ask one of our helpful librarians. We guarantee you will be enormously elated, you can find a link to MCPL’s e-book collections in this episode’s show notes.
Lauren: And now back to our program.
David: So Rita back to MCPL, can you tell us about some of the resources MCPL has for the traveler who might want to learn a language?
Rita: Certainly, so I am going to tell you what I know from our website and what I have learned having worked here. So we have books in nine world languages that include Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Farsi, Amharic, Russian, French and Bengali. We have three online resources Mango Languages, Muzzy Online and Rosetta Stone. And we have Conversation Clubs that we offer in a variety of different libraries in English, French, and Spanish and we have language learning videos from annenbergfoundationlearner.org. So those are our resources that the library system offers.
Lauren: So you mentioned some of the food festivals around in the area, do you have any other events that take place in Montgomery County that you really feel everyone should know about?
Cory: So in terms of events, both residents and visitors actually end going to our website, visitmontgomery.com, it’s the events pages are by far our most popular pages on our website. So it has really become one of our top resources for those types of events. Some of the popular events that are going one throughout the county, throughout the summer, there is a farm tour and harvest sale that happens throughout the county.
Lauren: Farm tour; what does that entail? What do you get on a farm tour?
Cory: So it is a self-guided tour where there are various farms that participate throughout the Ag reserve and you can actually go to our website and check it out. We have a blog post about it where you can visit various farms and you know learn about the tour, you know learn about the farm itself and purchase our products and all that fun stuff, but really the ultimate goal is to learn a little bit more about the Ag reserve and what the offerings are there. As I mentioned, the Taste of Wheaton is another event that is happening in July and also in June the Tiger Woods Foundation is having the Quicken Loans National Golf Tournament here at the end of June. So that is actually a very popular event that is happening here in the county, it is a great opportunity for people that like golf. I am not a golfer myself, but I would certainly have a blast, just hanging out and watching other people golf.
Lauren: Can you explain to us a little bit, you have mentioned this Ag reserve a few times, I am not quite sure what an Ag reserve is, can you tell us a little more about that?
Cory: Absolutely, people, you can actually visit the Office of Agriculture their website, they do a great description and explanation of what the Ag reserve is. Essentially what it’s, is 93,000 acres that’s reserved solely for agricultural use. So there are parameters around the reserve that limit the amount of development that occurs, one parameter is that you can only have one house or structure per 25 acres. And so the whole goal of it was that back in the day development was happening so quickly that we were very concerned about having all of our land used up for development. And so the county decided to reserve pretty much most of up county for agricultural use, so that way we still have that open space.
Lauren: So that’s why we still have all that farm land there, that makes a lot of sense. So this is a question for both of you, do you have any more favorite vacation destinations, you haven’t already planned Rita, because I know you have got a lot planned, that are still on your Bucket List that you are dying to experience?
Cory: I am actually, I am an avid traveler, I mean I feel that I am the type of person that basically turns my passion for food and travel into a job and so that’s actually been a lot of fun. So I spent a lot of time in the country exploring, I haven’t been to as many national parks as I want to so I am actually going to visit those resources that you just recommended. So I actually am kind of putting my focus more towards the international ground in terms of visiting. So I have been to Africa and explored Africa, but I want to check out South America, Brazil, I want to go to Iceland, Ireland, those are the places that I want to visit, right now they are top of my list. And at some point I will probably end up visiting Australia, but that is a long haul, that’s quite the commitment.
Cory: But on a local level I recently moved to Montgomery County, so I moved from Pittsburgh to Montgomery County back in September. And so it’s actually been fun to visit the county as a tourist, even though I market it, it has been fun.
Lauren: Do you have any staycation ideas besides the ones you have mentioned for those of us who aren’t going anywhere?
Cory: So if you consider yourself a shopaholic you can spend the day up in Clarksburg Premium Outlets.
Lauren: Rita is not in.
Cory: Oh Clarksburg Premium Outlets.
David: Yes yes.
Lauren: I am thinking, I keep driving past it, but I never actually stopped, it’s always where we go like on the way to Sugarloaf or whatever it is out there.
David: You can’t miss it.
Cory: Yeah you can’t miss it. I am a fan of bike riding so riding along the Capital Crescent Trail is actually a lot of fun and it’s just believe it or not I know this is probably going to surprise you, but I actually enjoy riding the Metro.
Lauren: I do too.
Cory: And you can actually do a pretty cool staycation just by riding the Metro and that’s what is so interesting and even here where we are located, you know where we recording this in Rockville, there is a Metro station just a 10 minute walk away, you can hop down and just randomly get off at a stop and --.
David: And it is a great way of seeing the very diverse parts of the area I am thinking.
Cory: Absolutely it really is. And then I also love hoping on the Metro and going in to DC for the day it’s a lot of fun and then I come back out here.
Lauren: We visited when I was five and the Metro was like the standout part of the trip besides the heat and the fact that we didn’t get to see the White House, the train was definitely what sticks with me from when I was five.
Lauren: How about you Rita is there any place that’s not a national park that you were dying to go to?
Rita: Well I have had the good fortune to go to Hawaii and I would like to go back again. We went to Hawai'i Volcanoes National Park at that point and of course that is currently closed and Kīlauea is erupting, so we will have to wait to go back for that to settle. I have never done a Fall Color Tour and I have always wanted to do that, I haven’t been able to figure out exactly how to time it so that you are actually seeing the colors. And years and years ago I went to Disney World and I would like to go back I mean --.
Lauren: Disney World.
Rita: I am just, I guess a kid at heart so, but Epcot Center that kind of peace of Disney World. One thing that I do want to mention in terms of travel when you mentioned the Metro, I think that one of the things that people here forget in terms of staycations is that the museums down in Washington DC are all free and when you go anyplace else in the country, usually if you go to a museum you have to pay to go to it. And I think that is one of the important things to remember about this area that you actually can stay in this area and you can do it fairly inexpensively because most of the museums around here don’t charge large amounts of money to get into them.
Lauren: Not even the zoo charges, that just -- my mind.
Rita: Yes, yes.
David: And even actually a lot of the museum in Montgomery County they are either free or very, very low cost. You know the only one that I am really familiar with the charges is the National Capital Trolley Museum and it’s what like $4 or something --, and it’s a cute museum.
Lauren: Well worth your $4.
David: It’s well worth your time.
Cory: It has some great value there.
Lauren: Okay so Rita as you head off into the sunset into the great west and national parks, what are you going to miss most about working at MCPL?
Rita: Well I would say there are several things that I have loved working with a variety of people that I have had a chance to work with in terms of our staff and the branches, our managers. I have had the good fortune to have done many different things in my life here in Montgomery County to have a wide variety of experiences. I would say that the last 10 years working facilities has been my greatest joy, I have really loved doing the work for on our full scale renovations which were Gaithersburg and Olney, on the new construction that we did was Silver Spring and now with Wheaton. And you know my personal passion it is the Refresh Projects that we have introduced where we have actually been able to refurbish, refresh branches much faster than had we put them into the normal renovation cycles. So that has given me an opportunity to not only learn about design and construction, but you know to do the fun things like picking out carpet colors and paint colors. And you know the satisfaction of also delivering buildings to the community where the community really appreciates our facilities. Montgomery County has got individuals of our communities really loves libraries and our refresh projects were meant to be six month closers and even for six months our customers are really, from the day we close to the day we open, they are wanting to know when are we going to open again. And I think that is terrific and we certainly appreciate it a lot and it has been a great joy to work with the community that loves libraries that much.
Lauren: So Rita you have been involved in a lot of refreshes, a lot of new libraries, is there something you want to tell Cory about something you have done that makes Montgomery Library a destination that he should be telling his customers about?
Rita: Well I would say that our libraries are destinations simply because each one of them is very individualistic and very different. Probably one of my favorite renovation facilities is the Olney Library which really calls to people from the road. When we built that facility the community said that nobody could find that library because it was set back from the road. And so when we did that renovation the architect actually pulled that building to the road. And so it has a glass front. So the question was okay what is going to activate that, what’s going to make people see that building and I said, “Put the children’s room there because there is always something happening in the children’s room” and I can say that about most of our libraries, you know I have often thought that we should have a standard design for our facilities just like grocery stores do, but that has never happened with any of our buildings each of them are individualistic and in that respect they are unique experiences. And you have a variety of resources that you can see and we have branches that have painting displays, you know other kinds of displays. So there is a great variety of things that you can see in any of our facilities.
Cory: Well it is actually true, I couldn’t agree more in terms of libraries. I mean when I travel 9 times out of 10 I end up going to even just a bookstore, right, just to check it out. And I feel libraries are so much more than just the book right, it’s a community space, it’s a third place, if you will where you have a chance. Especially people travelers who are looking for a local experience or they want to meet with the locals, the place to be is in the library you really get to experience what a local life is like.
David: So we usually close each episode by asking our guests to tell us about a book they are currently reading, perhaps something other than the travel guide, so I will start with you Rita.
Rita: Well as I have said I am retiring so I can’t read because literally I don’t have the time, but what I will tell you is I have a couple of books that I am anxious to read, one is Madeleine L'Engle' Wrinkle in Time because of the movie that just has come out which is a fabulous movie and as a result of that I want to go back to actually re-read that book, which I read when I was in high school. So I want to see whether or not it is still resonates with me. I just saw Camelot at the Shakespeare Theatre over the weekend and so T.H. White’s Once and Future King is a huge book, but I thought and I think I would like to go back and read that as well. And then years ago I saw Wicked at the National Theatre and Gregory Maguire has a series of books on that theme and so that’s one of the other ones that I want to read.
Lauren: Happy reading Rita, you have earned it.
David: How about you Cory?
Cory: For me my go to a book as I said before I tend to lean on the memoir particular food memoir is Blood Bones and Butter by Gabrielle Hamilton, it is by far my favorite go to book, she is such a beautiful writer based in New York. And so that right now actually what I am reading is David Sedaris’s new book Calypso, it is really good, a little different than what he has written in the past, but that’s the top of my list. And believe it or not you will actually probably see me more in the periodical section than you would in the book section actually. I read a lot of magazines, Afar Magazine is high on my list, I read Bethesda Magazine actually quite a bit, because it’s a great way to just know what is happening in the area. You know the Condé Nast Traveller all those type, you know Saveur, got to get my recipes. So that’s probably where you will see me the most.
David: Well Rita and Cory thank you very much for sharing your travel interest with us, it has been great having you. And we have certainly learnt a lot today and wish you happy travels.
Rita: Thank you very much.
Cory: Thank you so much.
David: Keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest. Don’t forget to subscribe to the Podcast on the new Apple podcast app, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast. Also please review and rate us on our Apple podcast, we love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today. See you next time.
Lauren Martino: Hello. Welcome to Library Matters. My name is Lauren Martino and I’m here with a wonderful group of library staff who are crazy about audiobooks. With me today is Vincent Mui – hi, Vincent.
Vincent Mui: Hello.
Lauren Martino: And Barbara Shansby. Welcome to the show, Barbara.
Barbara Shansby: Thank you
Lauren Martino: And Maranda Schoppert.
Maranda Schoppert: Hi, guys.
Lauren Martino: Thank you so much for coming. So I’m going to start with Barbara. Tell us a little bit about yourself. When did you start listening to audiobooks and like how frequent an audiobook listener are you.
Barbara Shansby: Well, I figured I’ve probably been listening to audiobooks for close to 30 years. I started when they were books on tape, literal cassette tapes that you put in the machine and push the play button, and rewind, and the whole thing. I got kind of hooked because a friend had suggested to me when I needed dental work to listen to music and I thought, “Well, I’m not so much a music person, but I love reading, so maybe if I listen to a book on tape that would distract me enough from the dental torture that I would be okay, and it was great. And I was completely hooked. And now, I always have a book in my car to listen to. I probably listen to about four or five, six a year or something like that. It takes me a long time because I don’t drive that much, and that’s the primary time I listened to but –
Lauren Martino: Or go to the dentist that much.
Barbara Shansby: Right. I’m thinking this. I’m finished with that for now. But I really do enjoy them. I think it’s a wonderful opportunity to read more and to do it in a kind of a different way.
Lauren Martino: Thanks, Barbara. How about you, Vincent, what gets you into audiobooks?
Vincent Mui: So, at one of my previous jobs, I had a long commute, it was maybe an hour and a half in the afternoons, 45 minutes in the morning, and I was going a bit crazy listening to the radio because you can only handle so much of the same personality day in and day out.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Vincent Mui: So, I started listening and then I go through phases between podcast, audiobooks, music, but more recently when I started at the library in June this year, I admittedly did not have a library card until I started because I didn’t see a reason to at the time, but now I see all the resources available to me. And my wife being a librarian gave me a really hard time about not having a library card to the –
Lauren Martino: As she should, yes.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah.
Vincent Mui: So I regret my decision, but I’ve been listening to many, many books over the past year and I’ve – it’s been incorporated into my routine actually. Besides my driving, I listen to it while I’m cooking or doing yard work or at the gym as well.
Lauren Martino: Just to clarify a little bit, Vincent’s a graphic designer so that’s why he can be excused for not having a library card; although, being married to a librarian, Vincent, really?
Vincent Mui: I found it very ironic.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, yeah, but we’re glad you have one now.
Vincent Mui: Yes.
Lauren Martino: You’ve discovered the lovely audiobooks available to you now. How about you, Maranda?
Maranda Schoppert: Well, I’m a little bit like Barbara. I don’t listen to music. I only listen to my audiobooks in the car, like you said, cooking, Vincent. I probably go for go through about 1 a week, depending on how long they are. I’m in the middle of a 32-hour one right now and that’s not going to be done in a week.
Vincent Mui: Goodness.
Lauren Martino: Yeah.
Maranda Schoppert: But just like you guys, I sort of started with listening to audiobooks when I started commuting and that was it, I’m involved. Audiobooks and me, we’re involved now.
Lauren Martino: Where you’re a thing.
Maranda Schoppert: Yup.
Lauren Martino: So, Maranda, what are qualities that you look for in an audiobook? What makes it something you’re going to choose even if, oh, it’s 32 hours? Wow. Apparently, length is not a – not a matter to turn –
Maranda Schoppert: Nope. Life doesn’t deter me. I listen to the whole Outlander series on audio. And, goodness, that is a long one. For me, the performer is definitely the most important. They need to be able to bring the book to life without trying too hard.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Maranda Schoppert: You know, there’s been a couple of audiobooks where you just, you know, that voice isn’t working. It isn’t working for you. But one of the important things also for me is sound quality. I have a really hard time when the volume in the audiobooks go up and down. The one I’m current currently listening to right now, I have to – depending on the narrator – I have to turn the volume up or turn the volume down. All of a sudden, someone’s screaming at me so –
Lauren Martino: Oh, that’s no good.
Maranda Schoppert: No.
Lauren Martino: So, Vincent, what do you look for when choosing an audiobook?
Vincent Mui: When looking for an audiobook, the story is really important to me. In the beginning of the year – I’m sorry, the beginning of when I first started here, I was more focused on self-improvement, self-help books, but then I decided to change towards more sequential books where – oh, well, I’m sorry, like young adult novels. For example, I guess, the Percy Jackson series, I was listening to that because the storyline is more of very, I guess, kind of viscerally primal, like I have to save the world. It’s a lot of action base so it makes me feel good when the heroes finally saved the day at the end. And then the narrator will be kind of second there.
Lauren Martino: So the plot really drives before you.
Vincent Mui: Yes, the plot is the – that’s that – I guess, that’s how I describe it.
Lauren Martino: Would you say like go on kicks like, you know, okay, it’s time to read all the Percy Jackson books and then.
Vincent Mui: Preferably, I would like to listen to all the books in order. However, if a particular series is a bit heavy, I will have to switch back and forth. I like more lighthearted tone stuff. I was listening to also Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files. I’m on the fourth book now but I can’t listen to them in order because I’m pretty sure in every book so far, he’s gotten really close to death or beaten up horribly and –
Lauren Martino: And Percy Jackson doesn’t?
Vincent Mui: Well, not the way it’s – since it’s a young adult, it’s not as bad Jim Butcher –
Lauren Martino: Yeah, it’s lighter.
Vincent Mui: Yeah, it’s more adult-oriented, so there’s a lot more. He describes getting beat up very well and there’s a lot of it involved.
Lauren Martino: Realistically?
Vincent Mui: Yes. He’s constantly bruised, bleeding. But Percy Jackson, it’s more he got cut, he’s not doing really well. So there’s less, I guess, detail there but it’s just –
Lauren Martino: He’s making stupid comments about it.
Vincent Mui: Yeah. Yeah, I need to switch between a bit more lighthearted or I guess maybe because young adult stuff is – it doesn’t really go into describing rather just pacing and narrating the action going on and more action – yeah, there’s – they are doing more rather than describing what they are thinking what they are doing.
Lauren Martino: How about you, Barbara? What’s the deciding factor for you in choosing an audiobook?
Barbara Shansby: Well, I do try to – when I was thinking about the question I was like, “Oh, it’s a good writing. That’s what I’m really looking for,” but, you know, that’s – is that true? Probably not. And I didn’t realize until I heard you talking, Vincent, that I do the same thing. I switch around. So I really don’t like to read two mysteries in a row or two biographies in a row. So I guess that drives me a lot. And the other thing, which is I’m not entirely sure why I’m so obsessed about this, but I really only want new books to listen to.
Lauren Martino: New books?
Barbara Shansby: Yeah, new. I don’t know.
Lauren Martino: Like what you haven’t listened to before or like new –
Barbara Shansby: No. I mean, new after 2016 or something.
Lauren Martino: Really?
Barbara Shansby: When I pick it up, it says 2013, no, I can’t read it. I don’t know. I just – I feel like I have to know the hot new things even though, like, it doesn’t really matter but I do –
Lauren Martino: Like librarian pressure?
Barbara Shansby: Library – yes. You know, that’s it.
Lauren Martino: After ending up on the latest stuff?
Barbara Shansby: Exactly, exactly. If I don’t know the new things, I am just – it’s just this serious problem, so.
Lauren Martino: You know, I won’t tell anybody if you happen to find something from 2009 that you – really strikes your fancy.
Barbara Shansby: I worry.
Lauren Martino: Do any of you find yourself choosing audiobooks that you wouldn’t read in print or vice versa?
Barbara Shansby: Yeah, absolutely. I read – I listened to a lot of nonfiction. I hardly ever read it. I also listen to a lot more mysteries than I read. Again, I agree with Vincent that it’s easier to listen to something that’s a little bit lighter. It’s – I love a good thick book where that’s a bit heavy, although, I don’t read them all the time but I’ll sit down and read it. But to sit and listen, I’m not as willing to do that. And I have to say, I admire you, Maranda, because I also am not willing to take on those big fat ones. It just intimidates me. I’m just like, “No, I can’t do it.”
Maranda Schoppert: I generally don’t realize there that long until after I’ve already started and then it’s too late.
Lauren Martino: You’re already into it?
Maranda Schoppert: I’m a little bit different though. I normally – well, I’m a big fiction girl. For me, listening to the audiobooks, it’s mostly a matter of availability. If the book I want to read is not on the shelf but I can get it in audio or vice versa, that’s what I’ll do. If I’ve started a series in audio, I must finish it in audio. But the one genre that I don’t read that I will occasionally listen to is biographies.
Lauren Martino: Well, what is it about listening biography that makes it okay?
Maranda Schoppert: I actually will only listen to the biographies that are narrated by the person.
Lauren Martino: Oh.
Maranda Schoppert: So, Anna Kendrick’s “Scrappy Little Nobody”. She narrated that one. Felicia Day, she narrated “You’re Never Weird on the Internet (Almost)”. Those were really entertaining and I don’t think they would have been done as well by an outside narrator.
Vincent Mui: I’ve only listened to one biography so far narrated by the author which is “Crazy is My Superpower” by A.J. Lee. I’m a wrestling –
Maranda Schoppert: What a great title.
Vincent Mui: Yeah. I’m a wrestling fan and her life is – she used to be a wrestler but she had to retire. However, just hearing it from them is much more personable and you can understand – you can understand the intricacies of it but you pick up on more intricacies on how they’re telling you. And there’s one part where I think she got very emotional and it kind of – you will not get that necessary from a narrator because it did not go through her life. So that’s why if I were to listen to more biographies, it would probably – I would prefer books narrated by the author.
Lauren Martino: So aside from biographies, do you guys prefer books narrated by the author or does it make a difference to you or –
Vincent Mui: I think you have to have a good voice because if it – there is another book I listened to called “The Four Tendencies” by Gretchen Rubin. It’s a great book but her voice I’m not fond of and I feel bad now that I’m saying it out loud. But it’s a great book so I was able to listen through it.
Maranda Schoppert: I don’t want an author to narrate my fiction.
Lauren Martino: No?
Maranda Schoppert: I’m not going to lie. I want the professionals to do it. I hate to say that but –
Barbara Shansby: Right. Yeah. I kind of agree. I think they’re usually better if an actor does them but I – just a month or two ago, I listened to Elizabeth Berg, The Story of Arthur Truluv and she narrated it herself, and I don’t know that she has any acting experience, and it was really lovely. She wasn’t the best narrator that I’ve ever listened to but it absolutely worked and it was really wonderful book.
Lauren Martino: I tend to exclude Neil Gaiman from any kind of – like Neil Gaiman can narrate anything, I’m sorry.
Barbara Shansby: Right, right. Yeah.
Lauren Martino: He’s got the duo tap [Phonetic] [0:12:33].
Maranda Schoppert: All right, she’s the exception.
Lauren Martino: He is the exception. He can –
Barbara Shansby: Yeah. What was that The Graveyard Book? Oh, my God, that was wonderful. Oh, that was so wonderful.
Lauren Martino: And Coraline, did you listen to Coraline?
Barbara Shansby: No. Coraline, I read and I really, really did not like it.
Lauren Martino: Really?
Barbara Shansby: So I bet if I had listened to it, it would have been a lot better.
Lauren Martino: The rat’s singing, it’s the scariest thing ever.
Barbara Shansby: I thought it was a pretty disturbing book.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. Also Jason Reynolds, I think, did really well. Like he did – one of his – I think he did Ghost, which was – sorry – children’s librarian. But, yeah, that was a good one. Do you tend to prefer famous actors or do you think, you know, your standard, you know, “I’m a voice actor and that’s what I do” is better or adequate?
Maranda Schoppert: You know what? I will say it’s not 100% true because I love Edward Herrmann who – the grandfather on Gilmore Girls for –
Lauren Martino: Right, right, he – yeah. He’s very good.
Maranda Schoppert: He’s an actor and, yet, he did pass away late 2014 but he narrated The Boys in the Boat and Unbroken and he’s done a bunch of other non-fiction that’s really great.
Barbara Shansby: Yes, I’ve heard him too.
Maranda Schoppert: So I think it depends on the actor. There are some voice actors out there. My personal –
Barbara Shansby: Brendan Fraser.
Maranda Schoppert: Yeah.
Barbara Shansby: Sorry
Maranda Schoppert: – that can’t do – you can’t, you know, just you need that body, you need that interaction between, you know, someone else. And then there are some actors that can do both.
Barbara Shansby: Well, I have to make a comment, which is that when I thought about this question, I realized how many times I love a narrator and then I look on the back of the CD case to see who it was and I’ve never heard of this person. And I read their credits and I would say about 90% of the time that person was in Law & Order. Why is that?
Maranda Schoppert: Everyone Law in Order.
Barbara Shansby: I just –
Lauren Martino: Wow.
Barbara Shansby: I don’t know why. It’s like is that a requirement for reading a book or I don’t know.
Maranda Schoppert: Writing a passage.
Vincent Mui: I –
Lauren Martino: That’s wild.
Barbara Shansby: Isn’t that funny?
Vincent Mui: Listening to the Dresden Files, I didn’t know James Marsters was on Buffy until I looked him up.
Lauren Martino: Wow.
Vincent Mui: He’s played Spike. And then I looked up his age and then it made me realize how old I am because Buffy still feels new to me but it was over 10 years ago at this point.
Lauren Martino: I hate to tell you.
Vincent Mui: But his voice is perfect for the main character and people actually complained when he switched one of the books he did not narrate and people were very – kind of angry about him not being, because you need that consistent voice and did a great job.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Vincent Mui: I was also pleasantly surprised when I was reading – listening to Ready Player One and Will Wheaton is the narrator, and that made perfect sense.
Lauren Martino: Oh yeah.
Vincent Mui: On top of that, there’s a joke in there about Will Wheaton and I’m just chuckling to myself. I’m thinking, “What?” I wonder what he’s feeling right now reading that part.
Barbara Shansby: Now, I have to listen to that one. I read it but now I have to listen to it.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. He did Redshirts too. Are you familiar with Redshirts?
Vincent Mui: No, I’m not.
Lauren Martino: It’s basically – it’s this book long, like, making fun of Star Trek.
Maranda Schoppert: Oh, wow.
Vincent Mui: That’s great.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. And it – but it’s like Will Wheaton was the perfect, perfect choice. I mean, he’s got this kind of second career. It’s like he’s not really an actor anymore, he’s kind of a personality and – but I think audiobook narration works well.
Vincent Mui: Yeah. He’s really had a second resurgence in terms of fame with his board gaming stuff and also his podcasting as well.
Lauren Martino: Have you ever had to give up a book entirely after listening to some of it because the narrator was so grating.
Barbara Shansby: Oh, yeah.
Vincent Mui: I definitely have.
Barbara Shansby: I am very picky. I mean, I think I’m really picky about reading in general. I pick up a book or read a chapter, I’m like, “No, I don’t – it doesn’t – it’s not doing it for me.” But audiobooks I think it’s even harder because you have to like the voice, you have to like – you have to find it captivating. I will sometimes listen to like three minutes of something and just pop it out and take it back, start over.
Maranda Schoppert: Not me. No.
Lauren Martino: No?
Maranda Schoppert: If I start a book, if I start an audiobook, as torturous as it is, I will finish it.
Barbara Shansby: Really?
Maranda Schoppert: The only book I have ever not finished after I started was Moby Dick.
Barbara Shansby: Wow.
Maranda Schoppert: And, yes, it gets painful.
Lauren Martino: You’re stuck with it that long, huh.
Maranda Schoppert: You are, especially if you’re not into – if it’s a boring audiobook and you have a boring narrator, I mean –
Barbara Shansby: There’s no saving to that.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah. I kind of just find myself spacing out in the car a little bit while I’m listening.
Vincent Mui: I had one book. The only time I had to stop was because the narrator was narrating an evil character. His voice got so creepy. I personally got very uncomfortable and I had to stop and I’m not going to name the book just because I was so crept out by his voice.
Maranda Schoppert: Will you tell me later?
Vincent Mui: Yes, I can tell you that later.
Lauren Martino: Can we put it on the show notes?
Vincent Mui: I don’t remember – I don’t know if the library actually has it.
Lauren Martino: Okay, I mean –
Vincent Mui: Yeah, that’s why I didn’t want to bring it up.
Lauren Martino: Oh, okay. But, yeah, that one is too good.
Maranda Schoppert: I love creepy.
Lauren Martino: She had you on for a horror episode. So, Barbara, can you tell us a little bit about MCPL’s resources for audiobooks. What do we have available for just ways of delivering audiobooks to people?
Barbara Shansby: You can get CD books. We have a lot available from many years past. We have them in – we have adult books, fiction and nonfiction, as we said. We have children’s books. We have books for young adults. We also have a series that I wanted to mention, The Teaching Company does courses that are on CD that you can check out and those are really interesting to listen to. We also have a lot of ebook – e-audiobooks available through a few of our – excuse me, digital subscriptions. You can get them through OverDrive, The Maryland Library Consortium. You can get them from a new subscription that we have called RBdigital. They can be downloaded or listen to remotely. All right, and also they do have, again, fiction, nonfiction, adult, children, teen books, all kinds of resources.
Maranda Schoppert: Other resources that the library has for audio or different resources like Project Gutenberg. You can listen to free audiobooks on there. They have a collection. There’s also a couple of different ones on there. Tumble Books for kids. You can listen to different languages.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Barbara Shansby: Oh, I forgot about that. That’s a great resource.
Lauren Martino: So you mentioned Tumble Books. Can you tell us a little bit more about that resource?
Maranda Schoppert: Tumble Books is geared toward the kids. Basically, they’re – it’s animated ebooks that you can check out on the computers that kids can, you know, follow along with the story as well as listen to it. Plus, you might see a little bunny jumping on the screen depending on the book. So it’s really a way to get at the kids in all different directions. You can – they’re reading, they’re watching, they’re doing the screen time, they’re also listening. So you’re sort of helping them get with their literacy, you know, get that early literacy in there in a way that this generation of children can really relate to, I think.
Barbara Shansby: It’s kind of like Reading Rainbow for today’s kids.
Maranda Schoppert: Yeah, definitely. That’s a good – that’s a good one.
Lauren Martino: And my daughter suddenly got into Reading Rainbow, it makes me so happy. I got the old episodes on Amazon. She’s like, “Can we read it again?” I’m like, “Yes. Yes, we can, darling.”
Narrator: And now a brief message about MCPL Services and Resources.
Female Narrator: Hey, if you’re not doing anything Saturday night, June 9th, come and listen to an award-winning author talk about his inspiring work. Ethiopian American author, Dinaw Mengestu will speak about his novel “The Beautiful Things that Heaven Bears”, about an Ethiopian immigrant who runs a failing convenience store in Washington D.C. This book is the pick for the 2018 Big Read Montgomery sponsored by National Endowment for the Arts. The event will be held Saturday June 9th at 7:30 at the Silver Spring Library. You must register online. You can find more information about this event in this episode’s show notes.
Narrator: Now back to our program.
Lauren Martino: So we all agree audiobooks are amazing. Are there any downsides to listening to something on audiobook or any reason you’d avoid audiobook versus like the print version of something?
Vincent Mui: So, my main disadvantage with audiobooks is that I would get into them too much. I was listening to – I don’t remember what portion it was but it was something funny and I was at the gym and there was a heavyweight over me and it almost – I could have hurt myself seriously because I started laughing in the gym and I had to really put the weight down. And when you’re lifting higher weights, it’s a little bit dangerous. And I – actually, I had two incidents where the weight fell on me. I rolled it off when I was bench pressing.
Barbara Shansby: Oh, no.
Vincent Mui: I was fine. It just I had to be more aware. Maybe I should not listen to something funny while I’m lifting something heavy over my head.
Lauren Martino: Do you think there’s – I’m sorry. That’s not funny. You’re –
Vincent Mui: No, no it is funny. I love telling the story. Audiobooks can seriously injure you.
Barbara Shansby: Right. Beware.
Lauren Martino: Is there anything you wanted to talk about the evils and dangers of audiobooks, Barbara?
Barbara Shansby: Well, it can’t match –
Lauren Martino: Corrupted youth.
Barbara Shansby: Absolutely, it can’t match Vincent’s story, but I was just going to say that I realized that when you’re listening to a book, you’re listening to every word; whereas, when you read a book, you can just skip over certain things. So, sometimes they’ll have a list of whatever. And in an audiobook, they have to read every single thing on the list.
Lauren Martino: Oh, gosh.
Barbara Shansby: Right? If you were sitting there in your chair at home with the actual book, you would just turn the pages. About two weeks ago, I was listening to a book called Seven Days of Us, which was really fun and it was written as a series of letters and emails and notes and – so, every email that was in the book she read – the narrator read out the entire address. Mary underscore Wilson at, you know, Maryland dot Library dot U.S. dot – like, I’m like what?
Lauren Martino: Just glance at it and not even paying that much attention, yeah.
Barbara Shansby: So that was kind of annoying but it was a good enough book that I kept listening.
Maranda Schoppert: You do sometimes miss out on certain things unless you look at the accompanying material. A lot of audiobooks will have, check out this PDF afterwards. So like Dan Brown’s Origin, same thing, you’re missing all these kind of like symbol images and whatnot, part of the symbolism of the story that you either have to go back and look in the book or see if they have that, you know, PDF copy in – with it.
Lauren Martino: That’s kind of like the “Diary of a Wimpy Kid” audios, I’ve never actually listened to one but I’m like, “Why? Why?” Or, yeah, I think I listen to a Stephen Hawking book once like the Brief History of Time and it’s like, “I need a diagram for this. I do not understand what’s going on.”
Barbara Shansby: Well, I don’t know. I listen to Curious Incident of a Dog which apparently had a lot of illustrations and I thought it was fantastic, amazing on audio, and I loved it. And I didn’t miss those illustrations or whatever or diagrams that they included in the book but I didn’t care, you know. I had a different experience.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, sometimes a narrator is good enough to make up for it. All right, so here’s your chance, gush about any favorite audiobooks, any favorite narrators, anything that sticks out in your mind as memorable.
Maranda Schoppert: Well, I’m going to gush about a book for a second. But first, I will say that one of my favorite narrators is Fiona Hardingham. She does a lot of Y.A. Sometimes I don’t even know it’s her until the end and I’m like, “That’s why I love this book. It’s Fiona Hardingham.”
Lauren Martino: Yeah.
Maranda Schoppert: She narrates some Maggie Stiefvater, Sabaa Tahir “An Ember in the Ashes”, Sophie Kingsley, Kiersten White. And she just had such a diverse voice. I mean, you go to – you go and look at her bio, she’s got pages and pages of audiobooks that she does. Primarily Y.A., so she does a really good job with that. But I’m going to gush over Uprooted by Naomi Novik. It’s one of my favorite books and I think it’s more for the plot rather than the narrator. The narrator has a very thick accent that was really hard to get over in the beginning, but then I’m like – I probably listened to this audiobook like three times already, so – and I’ve read the book twice. So, there are definitely are some that you can just, “It’s different every time you listen to it.”
Lauren Martino: Sometimes the plot just takes over and you don’t care what the – right – what the narrator sounds like.
Maranda Schoppert: Yup. Absolutely.
Lauren Martino: How about you, Vincent?
Vincent Mui: I just want to give a shout out to the narrator of the Percy Jackson series only because there’s a Pegasus in the book and he tries to talk like a horse.
Lauren Martino: That’s awesome.
Vincent Mui: I think that’s what caused me to almost hurt myself at the gym now that I think about it, because he talked like Mister Ed and I had to give him props, like the effort. He actually went to create a new character voice for him. I was very – that was a great moment for me.
Lauren Martino: So you’re not discriminating against the horse characters?
Vincent Mui: Nope.
Lauren Martino: I love it.
Barbara Shansby: Okay. So I have to say when I started listening to audiobooks, there were probably about 20 actors who read – who consistently read books, and so everybody have their favorites, and now it’s wonderful because I don’t even know who I like. I just listen to the book. There are so many different readers but I do have a weakness for British accents, so any –
Vincent Mui: I think everybody does.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah. Any book that’s takes place in England or whatever, that’s a good book. And I guess three that I really, really enjoyed were among my most memorable. I listen to the sequel to Peter Pan called Peter Pan in Scarlet by Geraldine McCaughrean and it was so much fun on audio. I really loved it. And then I went back and listened to the original Peter Pan just to –
Lauren Martino: Jim Dale?
Barbara Shansby: And that’s Jim Dale.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Barbara Shansby: Which, I mean, he was amazing on Harry Potter but I think I got a little tired of him somehow but it was totally different. Peter Pan was terrific. And then the other audiobook that I really want to mention because it was just so much fun was Martin Short did an autobiography called I Must Say and he sang on it and he tells his stories that are so funny. Actually, I started listening to it and then I decided it was too funny I have to save it for a trip so my husband can listen to it too.
Lauren Martino: Oh, for when you’re weightlifting.
Barbara Shansby: And then for my weightlifting, so I get it. I just loved it. And that’s – also Steve Martin did an autobiography.
Lauren Martino: Oh, boy.
Barbara Shansby: Right. Which again so funny, with another one that I listen to with my husband on a long trip.
Lauren Martino: Was he playing the banjo.
Barbara Shansby: I don’t think he did.
Lauren Martino: No?
Barbara Shansby: Maybe at the beginning, maybe the entrance. So, and now I’m listening to a book, although that’s going to be your last question what book are you listening to, right? I’m listening to a book about a lady’s choir, The Chilbury Ladies’ Choir and they have some choir singing for a few of the hymns that they talk about, so that’s pretty neat.
Lauren Martino: Oh, that’s cool.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah. I remember listening to a book about Marian Anderson and I’m just like, “You got to put –” like, it’s probably in the public domain, Marian Anderson. You could probably have stuck her in there.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: So I know some people feel very, very strongly about a single narrator versus full cast. Where do you guys stand on that?
Maranda Schoppert: I prefer a single narrator. It’s not the end of the world if there are multiple narrators but I just think a good narrator can achieve the same thing by doing it by themselves rather than having a cast of narrators. I don’t know. That’s just me. I’m also not a big fan of having sound effects in my audiobooks.
Vincent Mui: Oh.
Maranda Schoppert: For children’s books, yes, because I think that helps.
Barbara Shansby: Sure, why not.
Maranda Schoppert: But I want the narrator to be entirely on the narrator, but that’s just – that’s just me.
Lauren Martino: It can be distracting.
Maranda Schoppert: Yeah. It can be a little distracting and I almost find – sometimes find it a little cheesy. Like, you know, the drums are beating and then you hear drums in the background and you’re like, “Really? Like, okay.”
Lauren Martino: I could have inferred that.
Maranda Schoppert: Yeah.
Vincent Mui: I don’t think I’ve listened to any audiobooks with more than one narrator. However, I do like narrators that have a lot of range, particularly if it’s – if they’re narrating the main character and then women, if there’s – some of them can do a good female voice, some of them can’t.
Barbara Shansby: Not so much.
Vincent Mui: And I do actually appreciate some music in the background but very subtle. I think I was listening to the Thrawn novel and he would have ambient space noise, which really suited the – oh, actually, now that I think about it, there were laser blasts but it’s a Star Wars novel, so I was okay with it. But his range was really good in terms of engrossing me into the book.
Barbara Shansby: Yes. So, I was thinking that that’s another thing that maybe has changed somewhat over time. Seems to me when I started listening to audiobooks, it was more likely to be a full cast kind of thing with different narrators. And I think it just depends on the book for me, sometimes that’s – that enriches the experience. I listened to, what’s it called, My Sister’s Keeper by Jodi Picoult, and they had different readers for the different characters and it was really good. And then I was just thinking that I have listened to a book like that in a long time and this one that I’m – this Chilbury Ladies’ Choir is a cast and it has different characters narrated by different actors and it’s great. So, but I think the trend is much, much more to a single narrator. And I kind of agree with Maranda on the whole, if you asked me which I prefer, usually that’s kind of makes it more like the reading experience, it’s a little bit more seamless.
Lauren Martino: So we’ve heard what Barbara’s reading. Vincent What are you reading right now or listening to that you’d like to talk to us about.
Vincent Mui: I am actually listening to the Divergent series by Veronica Roth and it’s very different because it’s – the target demographic for the Divergent series is young women. So the writing style is different and there’s a lot more description about physical closeness.
Maranda Schoppert: Huh.
Vincent Mui: And –
Lauren Martino: That’s a teen book for you.
Vincent Mui: Yes. It’s a teen book but gears toward young women. So I’m having a bit of trouble because I feel awkward listening to her describe a kiss or her physical closeness to the male character that she is attracted to and I get a little uncomfortable a bit. I was with my wife in the car on our way back from New York City. I drive back and forth occasionally and I like to listen to audiobooks. I started – she – I don’t think she tolerated me very well because of my reactions to listening to the scenes of, yeah, I don’t – yeah, that’s –
Barbara Shansby: Were you giggling?
Vincent Mui: No, I was – I was more like, “Are you serious?” How many times do I have to listen to her describe, like, feeling electric or shivering or her heart beating, pounding through her ears, and it’s just – I got uncomfortable because the protagonist is 16.
Lauren Martino: Oh, God.
Barbara Shansby: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: Like, hon, you’re too young.
Vincent Mui: I am twice her age and a guy and married and it’s just – I can’t relate. I just wanted more of the action but –
Lauren Martino: You should probably not listen to Twilight.
Vincent Mui: Oh, no, no, not even going to – hmm.
Maranda Schoppert: Well, Vincent, you might like listening to what the series I’m currently listening to. I’m listening to the fourth and I will say hopefully final book in the Red Rising series, Iron Gold, by Pierce Brown. The first three books are fantastic and the third book actually I was completely like the ending ended perfectly, there should not be a fourth book but there is a fourth book and so far it’s okay. It’s one of those 23 plus hour ones though.
Vincent Mui: Oh, goodness.
Barbara Shansby: Wow.
Maranda Schoppert: But it’s definitely got a lot of action. There are some, you know, basically like lightsabers type of fighting with these – yeah.
Vincent Mui: Oh, okay, I’m down for this.
Maranda Schoppert: And it takes place through space and everything like that, so that one’s got a lot of action and it’s actually an example of one with multiple narrators that, like, I’m kind of like, “Hmm,” because the first three books only had one narrator.
Vincent Mui: Oh.
Maranda Schoppert: And now this fourth one has three.
Vincent Mui: Yeah, that’s a bit jarring when the narrator changes in the middle of a series because they say things slightly different.
Barbara Shansby: Oh, yeah.
Vincent Mui: So, the Percy Jackson series had one narrator then the Heroes of Olympus, which came afterwards, was a different narrator and he was saying their names differently.
Maranda Schoppert: Oh, gosh, drives me crazy.
Lauren Martino: Yeah.
Vincent Mui: And I was – and I was screaming in my mind saying, “You’re not seeing it right. The other guy didn’t say it this way. Why are you saying it that way?” I got over it eventually.
Maranda Schoppert: Or like sometimes when you read a book and then it’s so good you decide you listen to it but the way you said the characters names in your head is not the way the narrator says it and you’re like, “Oh, man. Either you’re like I’m wrong or you’re mad because it should be a different way.”
Barbara Shansby: Right, right. That happened to me with that Alexander McCall Smith, his #1 Ladies which I read as a book and then I listened to one of them, the mysteries and I wasn’t even close to getting the names of any of these African people. But I really was glad to hear how they’re supposed to sound.
Lauren Martino: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Barbara, Vincent, and Maranda. And thank you for listening to our podcast and taking time out of your busy audiobook’ listening schedule to listen to our podcast. Make sure to put whatever you like on hold because people will be asking for it all summer long as they are getting ready for vacation, so we wish you a very happy listening on any drive or – you may be taking or while mowing the lawn. And please keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please rate us on Apple Podcasts. We’d love to know what you think. Thanks for listening to our conversation today and see you next time.
David Payne: Welcome to Library Matters with your host David Payne.
Julie Dina: And I’m Julie Dina.
David Payne: And in today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about Summer Read and Learn 2018. The summer period is, for those of us who work in public libraries, without a doubt, the busiest time of the year. And while summer reading has changed in the way it’s organized, the way it’s done over the years, the overall aim is still very much the same of stimulating and encouraging reading. And talking about MCPL’s upcoming Summer Read and Learn Program, we have two guests today, first of all, Christine Freeman. Welcome, Christine.
Christine Freeman: Hi, thank you.
David Payne: Christine is the Manager of the Noyes branch as well as the Early Literacy and Children Services Manager as well. So thank you for taking time in your undoubtedly busy schedule to be with us.
Christine Freeman: I’m glad to be here.
David Payne: And joining us today as well, we have a voice you may well recognize if you’re a regular listener, that of Lauren Martino, our head of Children’s Services at the Silver Spring Branch.
Lauren Martino: Hi, David. Thanks for having me.
David Payne: And if you’re confused, don’t be. Lauren is, as you may well know, usually found in the hosts chair. She’s now in the guest chair. I will know if you’re really confused if you start asking me questions about something. Anyway, welcome, Lauren.
Lauren Martino: Thanks David.
David Payne: So let’s start with our first question and let me start with Christine. Tell us about yourself, your role as MCPL’s Early Literacy and Children’s Services Manager.
Christine Freeman: So my name is Christine Freeman. I was previously the – I’m head of Services and Children Services at Noyes Library and I’m the Branch Manager of Noyes Library. As the Early Literacy and Children’s Services Program Manager, my responsibilities include all of our reading programs, which include Summer Read and Learn and 1000 Books before Kindergarten. And don’t forget you can sign up for both of them at the same time if your children are under fives. Summer Read and Learn is going to be a lot of fun this year. The theme is Libraries Rock because we do.
And we have lots of fun programs that feature actual rocks and rock music. So there’s something for everyone. We have game boards for the kids. You can log things online. It’s just fantastic. We also have game boards for even little kids for zero to five. We have early literacy and game, so we won’t need the little ones out this year. And children’s, we have six to 12, and then of course our teens, we don’t want to forget them, they are 13 to 17.
David Payne: And Lauren, and your role as Head of Children’s at Silver Spring, tell us a bit about your department how you’re preparing for summer reading.
Lauren Martino: Oh, gosh. We’re doing what we can. Right now we are contacting all of the schools and, well, I’ve contacted them and now I’m following them, getting back to the ones that haven’t gotten back into me just to make sure we visit all the schools and get the word out. We are coordinating volunteers to help us out because this is a big undertaking. I know a lot of people, I guess you come to the library and you see all of these faces but so many – we’ve got so many volunteers that help out every year, teens that come out of the woodwork ready to help. We are just getting our materials organized.
I feel like I’ve got like battle plans drawn up in my office, kind of my organizational software out there, it’s color coded. Yeah. So this is – and just getting everybody on board, just making sure all the staff members know like this is what you do. And we have so many like subs that come through Silver Springs. So it’s like not only the people that are here all the time, the people that, you know, may not be here all the time.
David Payne: Do you find with each year that you do it, you have more of it nailed down?
Lauren Martino: I do. I do. This has been – let’s see, this is year number – this is the fourth year I’ve been doing this as the person in charge of a branch or a – not a branch but a department, so, yeah, slowly, I’m getting, you know, the first year I was like, “You want me to do what? What? We never did this. What are you doing?” But, yeah, we’re getting better and just as, you know, we have a place to put everything now. That first year, we were open at Silver Spring. It was like we’re carrying all our summer reading materials around in bags, like, it was just, you know, anytime you open a new branch, it’s like you can figure out what you’re doing. But, yeah, we got that all down this year. I think it’s going to be a good year.
David Payne: Great.
Julie Dina: Yay.
Christine Freeman: I do think too that since the last past couple of years, we’re trying to make it easier for customers and more simple of a program for staff so that is more fun and easier too.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. And I think it has gotten a lot better. Yeah, I think we’re getting in the groove of it.
Julie Dina: So with all of this excitement, you know, and I – not only staff is excited but I bet the kids who are going to be participating are also excited, when exactly does the summer reading program begin and end?
Christine Freeman: It begins on June 9th and we will go all through the summer up until September 9th, so there’s plenty of time to get it finished. So everybody should complete their summer reading challenge this year.
Lauren Martino: Yes, don’t just start, complete everybody. You can do it.
Julie Dina: Is there anyone who doesn’t?
Christine Freeman: Just a few. We’re working on that this year. We’re working on that this year.
Julie Dina: Now, another question that I wanted to ask is why exactly is it important for kids to read over the summer.
Lauren Martino: Well, there’s been a lot of talk about this phenomenon called the Summer Slide where some research suggests that kids that don’t read over the summer especially lower-income kids, kids that are kind of disadvantaged in general can actually start the next school year a month behind where they stopped. So imagine going to school in September and you’re, you know, a seventh grader who’s, you know, gotten through school in April instead of May and some people suggest that this is actually cumulative so, you know, you lose one month one year and then you lose another month the next year and, you know, you can see how you’d go through and be almost a year behind at the end of your schooling.
This has come under some scrutiny there are people that suggest that, you know, studies say different things. I’ve seen a lot of people that suggest too. It’s like, “Well, if you’re forgetting it or if you’ve really learned it –” like library programs in general and just reading for fun in general really focuses kids on doing stuff that’s fun, it’s learning but it’s fun and that fun is going to make whatever they learn stick in their brains that much better. So anything that they would have learned that, you know, is just going to slide off of them because they’ve learned it for the test because, gosh, I know that was like for college career, you know, but you’ve read it. It’s like, you know, what you get from reading the entire Captain Underpants series? You know, seriously, you know, it’s, you know, and the parents will come in and it’s like, “I don’t want my kids reading that trash.” And, you know, there’s, you know, something going to be said for expanding horizons and –
David Payne: They’re reading, that’s the main point, yeah, yeah.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, but, you know, it’s like the quantity really makes a difference. When you’re reading a lot of stuff, and kids read a lot of stuff and they’re reading stuff that’s fun, so we’re really just out to get kids to look at that and to try some of this stuff out. And we’ve got other activities that we’re going – that we’re encouraging kids to do through this program, things like make a pet rock or, let’s see, read a book that takes place in another country. They’re going to, you know, ask them to expand those horizons a little bit. But we will count any book in place of any of these activities. So if you want to read all the Captain Underpants, you know, you can – that’s your program, you know. We will count that. Do you have anything to add, Christine?
Christine Freeman: I just said a lot of the activities that we have on our boards are not only to keep the kids engaged but also to have families and kids engaged together. So like one of them is listen to a grown-up favorite song. So you have to ask your grown-up what is your favorite song and then you can listen to it together, then you can talk about it, maybe do a little dance. So just –
Lauren Martino: Karaoke.
Christine Freeman: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: Yeah.
Christine Freeman: Just mashed potatoes twist, I’m not sure.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Christine Freeman: So it’s just getting parents and kids to do things together instead of just sitting on the couch watching TV but actually doing activities together, I think.
Julie Dina: I like the sound of that.
David Payne: Sounds good.
Julie Dina: Yeah.
David Payne: Yeah. So each summer reading program every year has a different theme. And perhaps, you can tell us, Christine, a bit about this year’s Summer Read and Learn theme and what kinds of events that we have lined up that tie-in with that theme.
Christine Freeman: So this year’s theme is Libraries Rock and that’s for all of our age groups. And I think the most exciting program we’re going to have is going to be our dance parties and we’re going to have them all across the county and libraries throughout the system. And those dance parties, we have a bubble machine, we have some colored lights to fastened on the ceiling.
Lauren Martino: I’m so excited when I read about that. It’s going to be awesome.
Christine Freeman: We have some day-glow bracelets for the kids. We’re going to have a photo op so the kids will could then become just as the favorite rock star or music musician or they can just come with some crazy hair, and we’re going to have photo opportunities for them to take pictures and hopefully tag us on Instagram or Facebook. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun this year. I’m excited for our theme.
David Payne: That’s great. And, Lauren, how are you preparing for Libraries Rock?
Lauren Martino: Libraries Rock. Oh, I got this one program that we’re really excited about called Video Games at the Symphony. We actually have this group called The Washington Metropolitan Gamer Symphony Orchestra coming and presenting this event where they’re going to, you know, talk about video game music a little bit, which is, you know, a thing. This is a thing. People create this gorgeous music for video games. And then, you know, they’re going to perform and then the kids get to play with the instruments, which I’ve kind of been wanting to do something like that forever and then, you know, this kind of fell into our laps like, yeah, yeah, we’ll do this.
Somebody that actually listened to the CD that came with my Wii that’s like nothing but Zelda Music. And, yeah, my daughter like just starts dancing to it. I’m like, “Yeah, this is good music.” So we’re really excited about that. Let’s see, we’ve got a clown coming for our kickoff June 9th. Everybody, I think just about all the libraries are doing some sort of kickoff event or some sort of open house event, so we’re really hoping people will come out for that.
David Payne: Sounds exciting.
Julie Dina: Yeah.
Christine Freeman: Yeah. That should be good. We also have that program at Rockville as well.
Lauren Martino: Oh, the gamer program, yes.
David Payne: So, Christine, did you come up with a theme? How do you arrive at with this theme?
Christine Freeman: So the theme was selected by the CSLP, which is a Collaborative Summer Library Program, that’s a nationwide program that libraries use for themes. And they have graphics that we can use. They have activities we can use, booklist, that type of thing. But this year I think it’s going to be really fun to incorporate music and rocks into our program.
Lauren Martino: I love the summer reading theme where it’s like, you know, dig into reading or it’s like, archeology or construction or you get someone to play with it.
Christine Freeman: Yeah, archeology.
David Payne: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: Yeah.
David Payne: Great, thank you. And so do they come up with the theme sort of year by year or do they have a sort of five-year plan of –
Christine Freeman: They do you think ahead and next year will be type of a space theme. It’s being blogged at the moment.
Lauren Martino: I’m excited with that.
David Payne: Interesting. Okay.
Christine Freeman: I think that’ll be a lot of fun.
David Payne: Correct.
Christine Freeman: But they do think ahead of time. They actually will get this I think from the moment it stops, they start up again. Basically, the same as we do here at Montgomery County.
David Payne: Great.
Christine Freeman: We take like a two-week break and then start up again for next year.
David Payne: Right, it never ends, yeah, yeah.
Christine Freeman: It’s ongoing.
Julie Dina: I know you mentioned the dance parties earlier, will that be at all of MCPL branches or only specific ones?
Christine Freeman: It won’t be at all of them but it will be at the majority of them. So you can check our ongoing calendar on our website and that will tell you all the dance parties will be located or you can check your branch specifically and look for the dance parties or ask your librarian and they’ll be happy to tell you.
Julie Dina: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Lisa Navidi: Summer may mean vacations, beaches, travel, and sunscreen. But at MCPL, it also means summer reading. Whether you and your family are on the beach, on your porch or in a plane, we have a reading list tailored to your child’s age and grade, and a special list just for adults. You can find a link to our reading lists in this episodes show notes.
Julie Dina: Now back to our program.
David Payne: So one of the important parts important, important elements of summer readings are always the programming that goes along with it. And I think animal programs are probably some of the most popular ones that we find. As in past years, can we expect animal programs throughout the MCPL system? And how can we find out when and where?
Christine Freeman: Yes. We will actually have Glen Echo Park Aquarium. They do Touch the Sea Programs throughout and we have different themes. Like one of them will be sharks, so they’ll probably have a baby shark, love it. They bring live animals out in an aquarium and they had this really cool microscope that they can project that up to the wall so everybody gets to see even if they’re a little bit in the back. And then at the end, usually less people walk by and they can get a close-up look of the animals. But he breaks it down and makes it very interactive with the children and the adults and it’s learning as well as having fun.
Lauren Martino: See, we’ve got a number of other programs going on around the system as a – see, we’ve got Nature on Wheels presenting “Raptors!” on June 7th at Rockville. We’ve got a program called Reptile Rangers going on in the Maggie Nightingale Library on Saturday June 23rd. And the Maryland Zoo is presenting a number of programs as well. They’re going to Kensington on July 28th and they’ll also be at Germantown on August 22nd, presenting amazing adaptations.
Julie Dina: So it’s to no surprise that the Montgomery County Public Library runs a great summer reading program. However, I will like for you, either of you, to tell us some of the challenges that you actually come across in running a great program.
Lauren Martino: Wrapping your head around everything that is to happen? Yeah, it’s a lot. I found having really good volunteers on-hand helps a lot. Let’s see, just making sure everybody knows what’s going on. I work at a very, very big branch. I don’t know, this is probably a different challenge than maybe what Noyes, for example, faces with, you know, three people. But just making sure everybody knows what’s going on and what to do and where everything is located and things like that. Just also that in the libraries, which is super busy during the summer anyway.
Julie Dina: I imagine.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I just – I always forget just how exhausting summer is but it’s all worth it, it’s all worth it. You see kids that you don’t see as much during the year and they’ve got big smiles on their faces and they’re just so excited. And when they come in and they’ve gotten their prize, you know, it’s like, yeah, that makes it all worth it.
Christine Freeman: I think for me in planning the program, the challenge I find is finding prizes that everybody will like. So this year, this year –
Lauren Martino: This year.
Christine Freeman: – we have a big treasure chest and it’s going to have all kinds of prizes in it. So I’m sure that you can find something you like. And some of those things will be recorders. There’ll be mustache whistles. They’ll be, for the little ones, Play-Doh. There’ll go charts for the little ones. I’m trying to think of all the cool stuff that’s in there. But lots of music type things, blow-up guitars, everybody wants a blow-up guitar.
Lauren Martino: I really want to see those book parts at our dance parties. I’ve seen them.
Christine Freeman: Yeah. We have bandanas -- bandanas that are decorated for our theme, Libraries Rock. So I think the good thing is the kids can choose a prize that they like, and hopefully that will encourage them to keep it over the summer because the more they read, the more prizes they get.
Lauren Martino: I’m also digging these like Rockstar themed rubber duckies. Yeah.
David Payne: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: Oh gosh. And these are ribbons to dance with.
Christine Freeman: The dance ribbons are fun.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Christine Freeman: And we have the sticks.
Lauren Martino: The didgeridoo type of sticks?
Christine Freeman: The groan sticks.
Lauren Martino: Oh, so the groan.
Christine Freeman: So you turn them upside down and they go, "Rrrawn!" and then you put all handful of them together.
Lauren Martino: Hey, kids, take this down to the fourth floor where the grownups are all studying.
Christine Freeman: You can use the kazoos to wake up your parents in the morning.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah.
Christine Freeman: Lots of fun stuff in the treasure chest.
David Payne: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Freeman: And for the teens, we have cool stuff too and they live in a teen prize bag, not a treasure chest, a teen prize bag.
Lauren Martino: Oh.
David Payne: Oh.
Christine Freeman: And in there, we have like fidgets, we have some coloring pencils and color books. We have PopSockets for phones, we have ear buds that type of things.
Julie Dina: Teens always love that.
Christine Freeman: Yeah. They get to pick something cool also.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. We felt really old around them just like, “What does this PopSockets thing we’re giving out?” No, it’s cute. And I noticed them on every teen’s phone, like, cool, you guys are way ahead of us.
David Payne: Some great prizes there. So, now, I’m going to put you on the spot a bit and ask both of you, if you had a choice, who would be your dream Summer Read and Learn performer?
Lauren Martino: We can choose anybody?
David Payne: Yes, absolutely anyone.
Lauren Martino: Oh, gosh. I love Laurie Berkner or Jim Gill. We just went to a workshop with him.
Julie Dina: Jim Gill.
Lauren Martino: Oh, my gosh, I want Jim Gill. Jim Gill, if you’re listening, I love your workshop the other day.
Christine Freeman: Do you want to see librarians fan girl?
Lauren Martino: Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, we saw it. We saw it. Some girl brought her ukulele to be signed at this workshop and I’m like, “Oh, I should have brought mine” Oh, my goodness. I should have brought my banjo.
Julie Dina: Should have brought everything.
Lauren Martino: I should have brought – oh, gosh, I could have him signed everything.
Christine Freeman: He is amazing.
Lauren Martino: He is amazing. Just somebody who really – it started off like in special – he was doing like family playtime like in college, just working with kids with special needs and then he got a Master’s in Education. You know, he is a fun musician. But he just gets kids and he gets what’s he needs to do. He gets it, so, okay.
Julie Dina: Wow.
Christine Freeman: And everything he does so looks so well with every child ready to read because he is all about play and he is all about seeing, he is all about reading, he is all about writing. So it’s just – it works so well.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. Although you know –
Christine Freeman: We'll stop fan girling, really.
Lauren Martino: And fan girl. Oh, I don’t know. So Damascus is having milkshake, I think that would be pretty awesome too you know. And Jacks Are Wild, you know, you know, some of these dream programs that I would like to have at my branch or happening at other branches this year. So, go out and take advantage, guys. It’s like, yeah, I feel like – I had a co-worker the other day who was like, “Jacks Are Wild. Let’s get them, let’s get them.” And we can get them for our branch. But Gaithersburg has them June 16th, so.
David Payne: Maybe next year.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. Oh, gosh.
Julie Dina: It’ll be your turn.
Lauren Martino: Christine, if you’re scheduling. That’s what we want.
Christine Freeman: And we have some other great performers. We have Eric Energy. We have Groovy Nate. We’re going to have just many, many performers, too many to name, all over the system. And if you miss them at One Library, check out calendar because more than likely, they will be in another library during the summer. You can always ask our librarians, they can help you. Look at all calendar and see if they’re available at the library.
Julie Dina: So while we’re on that same topic, is there a specific picture book or chapter book you wish every kid could read over the summer?
Lauren Martino: I was thinking about this last night. Picture book, I have to go with Jabari Jumps by Gaia Cornwall. I’m sorry if I’m slaughtering her name. But, yeah, it’s about this little boy and it’s just he goes up, climbs that – he gets to that diving board and he’s in front of the line and then he’s next in line and then he’s, you know, a couple of people back in line because he’s perfecting his technique. He is, you know, thinking really hard about the way he wants to jump down this diving board and, you know, basically, you know, he’s conquering his fear of going up on the diving board.
and his dad and his sister there and they’re cheering him on and they’re, you know, walking him through this whole process of fear and, you know, it’s like, “Okay, you don’t need to be afraid, that’s all right, you know, this is how you deal with it,” and it just was really moving to me especially since as a kid during the summer I had an experience like that. Like, I got to the top of the diving board and like stopped and, you know, waited like for five minutes, I couldn’t jump while the rest of the people are like – so this happens. And, I mean, gosh, this is about like a seven-year old. I think I was like 13 at the time, you know, so it happens. And it was just – it’s just – it’s surreal and just something that we all face and just beautifully drawn and just, you know, sun-washed. It’s like this is what a pool, you know, this is the color, this is the pool midsummer.
Julie Dina: Christine?
Christine Freeman: For textbooks, I’m going to go old school and go with Watson’s Go To Birmingham. It’s one of my favorites, it’s just classic. I love it because it’s about a real family. And even here’s tragedy in the book, there’s like laughter and there’s just a family being a family. And I think everybody can relate to some parts of this book. And it’s historical fiction, which I think kids don’t normally go to unless to do an assignment. But once they start reading this book, they’ll forget that it’s historical fiction book because they’ll just relate so much to the family, I believe.
Lauren Martino: Well, you just have to start that first chapter where he’s got his tongue stuck to the mirror of the car. I think that’s enough to sell it.
Christine Freeman: So in his books, his – Christopher Paul Curtis’s books are so great for listening to on audio. I know I listen to Bud, Not Buddy on audio. And the people in the car had listened to it because I was listening to it and I could hear my kids laughing in the back, like they were getting into it even though I thought they were sleeping, so it’s –
Lauren Martino: Isn’t it nice?
Christine Freeman: Yeah. It was – it was great to listen to it aloud.
Lauren Martino: I got to have those audio books for car trips.
Christine Freeman: Yes, for sure.
Lauren Martino: Also put down Gone Crazy in Alabama by Rita Garcia Williams. And I had to think about this. I feel like, “Oh, yeah, it’s the third book in the series. That’s my favorite.”
Christine Freeman: Oh, yeah, it’s the third book. I only have the first book.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like they get better because I enjoyed the first one and then I enjoyed the second one even more. And by the third one, I’m like, “This is the best one.” But, yeah, so, like, three girls and I – it gets – it’s sort of, you know, like Watsons Go to Birmingham. They’re in the Deep South for the summer. They’re from up north, they’re Black, it’s, you know, but they’re with their family. And, you know, kind of gradually realize their family, you know, goes back a ways to the fact that, you know, you got the family, the Black family over here. And, you know, they’ve got family that was like plantation owners. You got this guy over here, he’s a member the Ku Klux Klan and he’s still a part of their family.
you know, it’s like it’s really complicated, like look into family relationships and, you know, what does it mean to be family. But, yeah, and – but the three sisters are just so real, like, they love each other, they’re going to be there for each other but they are going to annoy the heck out of each other on the way. And something happens in the middle of the book, I don’t want to spoil it or anything but, like, just blindsides you, like to the point where it’s like, I don’t know how this book’s going to end, you know, nothing – I can’t take, you know, I’m not taking anything for granted at this point. So, yeah, I think it’s the best, you know, read the whole series, please. But if you don’t read any of the other ones, read Gone Crazy in Alabama.
Christine Freeman: You’ve convinced me. I’m going to go get it.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. Yeah. You know –
Christine Freeman: I’ll try – I got the first one. I know there’s a second and third, so I’m going to go check them out today.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, PSPL love it and it’s good. Yes. And the audiobooks are quite good.
Julie Dina: How many books are there in this series?
Lauren Martino: There are three.
Julie Dina: Okay.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. And the first one is like, “We spend the summer with mom who’s in California and she’s a Black Panther.”
Christine Freeman: Which is in Oakland, close to my hometown.
Lauren Martino: Oh, yeah, okay.
Christine Freeman: So, that’s why I was interested in the first one but –
Lauren Martino: But, yeah, it’s, you know, all the historical stuff and also, you know, I’m going to annoy the heck out of my sisters because they’re annoying me back. Oh, yeah.
David Payne: Well, reading this is always very helpful in terms of connecting readers to books. Will MCPL be providing reading lists for all ages? And how can parents find new books for their kids to read?
Lauren Martino: Well, when you’re signing up for summer reading, you’re also signing up for something called Beanstack. And, so, automatically, you’ve got something built in right there. You can – there’s a box that you check or leave unchecked that will send recommendations right to your email for kids that are your kids’ age. So that’s a good way. We’ve also got lists on our website. And I think most of the branches have lists available of just lists that our librarians have put together for each grade because I know parents come in and they’re like, “Oh, where are the first grade books?” or “Where the fifth grade books?”
it’s hard if you don’t know, you know, how to choose a book for, you know, how old your child is, and we get that. And for, you know, fairness reasons, we don’t categorize stuff by age. You know, I’ve seen libraries that did this and I actually was – had a pile of books with these ages written on them and had a group full of kids and they’re like, “I can’t read this book. It’s a fifth grade book, I’m a 6th grader,” you know, and that’s what, you know, you’re trying to avoid because, you know, there’s plenty of books that work for fifth graders and sixth graders and fourth graders. You know, the lists are kind of good that way because there’s a range.
So for each grade, there are some that are easier and some that are harder. So there’s something on it that’s going to work for your kid. And, also, you know, ask your librarian. People don’t think about it. But, you know, and they always act like they’re bothering us, you’re not bothering us. Just ask us, we are happy, we are – I’m shelving books there or, you know, putting stuff on display just waiting for you to ask me a question. So, please, ask me and I’m happy to find a book that’s going to be great for your child.
Christine Freeman: Yeah. And we do have to restate that parents can print them from home, they’re available in our website. If you’re interested, you can print them at home also. We can go to our library and ask the librarians to print them out for you.
David Payne: So, listen, just ask a librarian.
Julie Dina: And I’ll be asking you this question. What would be your favorite summer reading memory from childhood or with your own kids?
Lauren Martino: I have to say I don’t think we’ve participated much with summer reading as a kid. I do remember being a volunteer in signing people up and I just felt so important and, like, this weigh of this responsibility they were trusting me with all the stuff. And, you know, they just, you know, they put me in my place and they just kind of went off and did their thing and, you know, here I am, signing kids up for summer reading. You know, I didn’t realize that then that I’d be, you know, doing this my whole life.
But, yeah, I’ve got a four-year old at home and, you know, we’ve been working on some of them but – and I want to encourage people to consider this, you know, like, your summer is busy, you may not always have time to do all these stuff, but if you have parents that get to take your kids for any length of time, grandparents love to do this stuff with the kids. So, you know, we want you to spend time with your kids and we want you to have these experiences, these enriching experience. But, you know, you can share them with grandma, you can share them with uncles and aunts and cousins. Yeah, you can share the wealth, and it’s a really great experience for everybody.
Christine Freeman: And I think for me, I remember my son, I was a library page, so I’m responsible for putting books on the shelf, and I would take my son to work with me and I would make him put the picture books away because they were the easiest and that way I didn’t have to do it. And then afterwards, he would –
Lauren Martino: Nice. Smart.
Christine Freeman: Afterwards, he would go and he would do the summer reading game, and he loved it because they had, like, a little spinner. So if you completed so many, you got to do the spinner and get a price. So he really enjoyed doing that when he go to the library with me.
Lauren Martino: Great memories.
David Payne: So we always close our episodes by asking the guests what they’re reading now. So let me ask, let’s start with you, Christine, what’s in your bookshelf right now?
Christine Freeman: Right now, I’m reading travel guides to England because I’ve been traveling there and I’m trying to make a plan. It’s a lot harder than it sounds. So lots of travel guides live on my shelf right now. I’m also reading Matt de la Pena’s We Were Here. I’m a bit halfway through it. I picked it up because the setup was done in Stockton and I relocated from Stockton so that’s why I went and had picked that up. So that’s what I’m reading right now. Nonfiction and fiction, which is unusual for me because I usually don’t read nonfiction.
Lauren Martino: I am slugging my way through this book in French. I actually read it in English and I saw the movie and I really liked it in English and then the – and the movie. It’s called the Diving Bell and the Butterfly. It is, I believe, the only book I know of that’s been dictated entirely with eye blinks because –
David Payne: Right. It was very, very unusual.
Lauren Martino: Yeah. The author, he was like chief editor, I believe, of Elle in France for a while and he had, like, a stroke or something and ended up, like, with locked-in syndrome. So he basically can’t move –
David Payne: Couldn’t communicate.
Lauren Martino: Couldn’t move, he can winked one eye because his other eyes is closed. He can wink one eye, he can’t talk, he can’t sign, he can’t do anything but he can blink one eye. So, they developed this system of, like, they’d read the alphabet out and in an order in which, you know, just by the frequency they occur in French and he would blink an eye when he got to the right letter. So it’s spell out word by word what he wanted to say. And, yeah, and he wrote a book this way.
Christine Freeman: That amazing.
Lauren Martino: I know. It’s incredible.
David Payne: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: And he’s also super well-educated and as you know, you know, French is not my first language, you know. I’m just like, “Vocabulary, vocabulary.” Yeah. I had the same problem with the Elegance of the Hedgehog and, like, so, you know, it’s taking me awhile. But the book in the English was very good. And the movie – there’s a movie too that’s incredible that they made on the same subject, so.
David Payne: I can see you’ll be busy with that for a while.
Lauren Martino: Yes. I’m almost to the end, you know. So, you know, I keep thinking like, you know, it’s taking me awhile to read, you know, how long did it take him to write? I can’t complain.
Christine Freeman: Right.
Julie Dina: So many blinks until you finish?
Lauren Martino: Okay. Luckily, I don’t have to blink. Yeah. But it’s just about, you know, he’s talking a little bit about the hospital, you know, and you just, you know, the intricacies of, you know, people coming to visit him and how they feel and how he feels and just –
David Payne: Incredible story. Yeah.
Lauren Martino: Yeah, it’s an incredible story. And he told them little snippets and, like, he composed this, he memorized everything like he, you know, spend hours, you know, alone in his room, in his bed like memorizing what he wanted to say until he could get somebody that would dictate for him and then he would just let it all out. So it’s in like little chapters, like little bits at a time, but just fascinating.
Julie Dina: You’ve guys have wowed us.
David Payne: You sold us on summer reading.
Julie Dina: Yes. You really have been. I want to thank you, Christine and Lauren, for all the wonderful information you’ve given us this afternoon. Let’s keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple Podcast app. Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast. Also, please review and rate us on Apple Podcast. We love to know what you think. Thank you for listening for our conversation today and see you next time.
Lauren Martino: Hello, welcome to Library Matters. I'm Lauren Martino and I'm here with my co-host Julie Dina. Hi Julie.
Julie Dina: Hello.
Lauren: And we are also here with Adrienne Miles Holderbaum who is expecting. She is a Senior Librarian at Germantown. Hi Adrienne.
Adrienne Miles: Hello. Hi, excited to be here.
Lauren: And we're also here with Maranda Schoppert who has a very small child; who made a lovely appearance at MoComCon by the way. Hi Maranda.
Maranda Schoppert: Hi guys.
Lauren: So tell us a little bit about yourself Maranda. How old is your baby now?
Maranda: Well, my – I have a baby girl, her name is Lyla. She is almost five months old, doing sort of really good now. We're starting to move our toes and our legs. We have found our feet.
Lauren: Yes, cute.
Maranda: And this is my first baby, so everything is new for me. So we're just enjoying it, me and my husband. We just are so in love with her and it's just fun and tiring.
Lauren: How about you Adrienne?
Adrienne: Sure. I have a daughter who is 3 years old. I'm expecting another baby in May and it’s another girl. The 3-year-old is awesome. She is a lot of -- she has a lot of -- it takes a lot of energy. So being pregnant this time around is very different. I'm more tired for obvious reasons, and it's hard to focus on actually being pregnant this time which is kind of good and kind of bad. Yeah. Like age 3 is like the peak of all your energy you will have in your entire life. It's so much fun. It's like my favourite age for kids. Everything is new and they're able to express themselves, it is awesome. Congratulations and good luck.
Julie: Well congratulations again Adrienne. You're getting a lot of those today. So since both you and Maranda are actually sort of experts in this field, [Laughing] for this episode, could you tell us or give us tips for those who it will really be helpful for as to having a smooth pregnancy especially in the first trimester because I know I had a horrible one for both my pregnancies.
Adrienne: Okay. The first trimester I think resting and taking the time out to rest and not pushing it is really important. I was fortunate enough to not have nausea or like any other symptoms, I just -- I'm very tired at the beginning. So for my second pregnancy it was harder to find time for myself, so asking my husband to take my daughter out of the house or relying on family members too, and then also I like screen time I – it’s been awesome. So put a movie on and like take a little 20-minute catnap, it’s just been awesome. So self-care first trimester just really -- because it's important, it's one of the most important. Each trimester is important but the first is really you need to not be stressed and just rest.
Maranda: While I was nauseous quite a bit. So my biggest help for that was many meals often, string cheese, those little individual prune wrappers, yogurt drinks, peanut butter crackers, anything that you can have a lot at multiple times a day. I totally just skipped any main meal you know. My other advice - practice your smile and nod.
Lauren: That’s awesome.
Maranda: So much advice kept coming my way and after a while I just was like uh-huh, I'm going to smile, I'm going to nod my head. I'm taking your advice and I'm just -- I'm just I'm thinking about it. And that was the sort of saving grace by the time I got to the end of the first trimester, I knew to do that going forward.
Lauren: That sounds like something fun to roleplay at home.
Lauren: Like hit me with your best shot, your most outrageous comment and I'm going to nod and smile.
Maranda: Yeah, I'm going to practice keeping that on my face.
Lauren: So there are a million and one pregnancy books out there and they all conflict. So do you Adrienne have any advice for sorting through them and figuring out which ones you're going to pay attention to and which ones you're just going to dismiss.
Adrienne: So for me I feel like these -- for me I'm more into books that are more holistic and less medically focused. And I think it's important to have the medical knowledge of what goes on with your body and on labor and delivery. But I'm more interested in how our bodies deal with pregnancy and how our bodies are amazing and can do this in a positive and about female empowerment. I think that's really important for me but not for everyone, so for me that's what I kind of use to guide what I'm reading during pregnancy. I like reputable authors of course, so doctors, midwives, yeah people that have done it and around it and had a lot of experience with it.
Lauren: How about you Maranda? Do you have an approach?
Maranda: I kind of went a little bit of a different route. I wanted to find books that were written by medical professionals who are also parents not just moms, dads too that was fine with me. I sort of wanted the play-by-play. I wanted to know week-by-week what to expect. And I also wanted the latest addition. So if there was anything new information out there wise I wanted to know, so that was important to me.
Lauren: Because they keep changing.
Maranda: Yes. You never know.
Adrienne: Yeah, it is so interesting because my favourite book is about like the history like how women have been doing it for like ever and midwife because I'm really into midwifery, so it was about like what they did before was medicalised and what they did at home. So it's so interesting that like your--
Maranda: Well, my hospital sent in a midwife at some point and I was like "Oh, I didn't ask for you, but hi." I mean it was great getting a different perspective but I didn't totally didn’t expect it you know.
Lauren: What's the name of that book Adrienne by the way?
Maranda: Which one? The one that-
Lauren: The history.
Adrienne: Oh, that was Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin. She mentions the history of midwifery but it's not the focus of the book but she does talk about it. And that book also focuses a lot on birth stories -- positive birth stories, because when you're pregnant everyone tells you about the horror -- horrible experiences they have. So that book I didn't read it as much in my first pregnancy; this pregnancy I definitely have been reading it, because I'm like I need to hear the positive birth stories, and you know, the amazing things that our bodies can do to birth the child.
I started watching 'Call the Midwife' when I was pregnant. One episode, I'm like okay and [crosstalk]. I made it to episode 5 and then I couldn't do it anymore. And it was when I was pregnant too. I was like, I just can't, you're strong, I couldn't do it.
Julie: So do either of you have any favourite books for trying to conceive?
Maranda: So for us we went more on the app and article route for trying to conceive. Apps like Glow where you could sort of track and sort of know when your highest times to conceive were. I also used Parents magazine. I read a lot of those articles. And we actually -- I even subscribed for their emails which I still get and are still handy, that kind of follow the ages too which is neat. But I know we have our Parents magazine on RBdigital, so that's something that you guys can get from the library. I also took some advice from people in sort of my same boat from the bump, but definitely the apps were the way that we went.
Adrienne: So I did not read any books for trying to conceive but I did try to make sure I was in a great place physically and emotionally before I had a child. So I made sure that you know, I'm confident and I felt I was very spiritual, so I was like I feel good and you know, I feel like it's a good time to do that. So that was -- and then I just -- we just kind of saw what happened.
Reading this question I was like, “Oh, okay, let me see what books we have in our collection.” And there is a book that is called 'The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant by Jean Twenge, and it was very useful. I wish I did read it because one of the useful things is so simple about like charting your cycles. And I just kind of was more like, "Oh whatever, we'll see what happens." But I think the importance of knowing your conception date in relation to your due dates.
So when I -- I had to be induced because I was post-dates but I wasn't charting my cycle, so I didn't -- this is really TMI [Laughter]. I didn't know like I knew when my last period was, but maybe I was wrong when I actually ovulated, because when you go post-dates then they want to induce you. So I think if I would have known like more accurately how far along I was to give that information to the doctor then it might have been a little bit different.
Maranda: Well, see that's sort of the good things about the apps for us. They kept telling us that we were further along and that the baby was too big and you know, you're definitely you know 10 days further along. And I'm like, "No, we couldn't be. There is no way." So that really helped with my doctor like not changing our due date, so that way we didn't go too far over or too far too soon.
Adrienne: I think that's very useful and I think being aware of that, so using an app or just knowing it would be very helpful during pregnancy.
Maranda: And beyond they are asking you, like those questions all the time when you are at the doctor’s –.
Adrienne: They ask all the time.
Adrienne: I don't remember.
Maranda: Oh god a Tuesday. Yeah, yeah.
Adrienne: So it was less – it wasn't – it was not stressful to like get pregnant for me. But I think that in retrospect I wish I would have paid more attention to that. And I didn't pay attention the second time either cause I didn't read this book.
Julie: Well now that you know about the book maybe you use it for the third one.
Adrienne: Exactly, yeah. Um. Third one?
Lauren: I like what you did there Julie I looked at that one too, yeah, so it's really good about like sorting through like so-and-so says this and so and so say this, this is what we know. This is what we're fairly certain about, follow this advice, you know, sorts through all –.
Adrienne: Yeah it was awesome. Oh it is awesome.
Lauren: So Maranda, do you have anything specific you'd like to recommend for pregnancy. Anything that jumps out at you from everything that you were looking at.
Maranda: Well one of the books that I will say I read cover-to-cover, because the other ones you might have just browsed flipped through a little bit. But the one I read cover-to-cover was the Mayo Clinic Guide to Healthy Pregnancy. This was written by a bunch of the doctors at the Mayo Clinic, all of who had kids of their own. So that was great. And one of the things I really liked about it was like I said it gave you a month-by-month, what happens in month one, what to expect, how your baby is growing. They give you little diagrams and then it also had – it was really great. The layout was just awesome, because if you had any questions about, “Oh I'm having back pain,” just flip to that chapter.
So I didn't have to be overwhelmed by reading the whole book right away. I actually read it like I would read month two during month one. You know, so see what was coming. So I didn't – I could take it little pieces at a time and I didn't have to be like, “Oh my god in eight months I'm going to feel this.”
Lauren: And here's all the horrible awful things that might be happening to you.
Maranda: Yeah I could just live in the moment.
Lauren: How about you Adrienne, do you have anything specific you'd like to recommend?
Adrienne: Sure, there's a couple of books. One is called Bumpology: The Myth-Busting Pregnancy Book for Curious Parents-To-to-Be by Linda Geddes. It was a favorite of mine, its statistics and fact based. It's fun and it answers pregnancy myths we've all heard. And I as a librarian, I really enjoyed it because it was a lot of random information and I like random information. So some of the questions that it answers is, “Can the shape of my bump or anything else predict the gender of my child?” “Why don't pregnant women topple over?” What's more painful.
Adrienne: It talks about your center of gravity and nature is amazing. “What's more painful childbirth or having your leg chopped off?’ “Does having a membrane sweep work as an epidural make a c-section more likely?” “Can prevent sagging breasts, if you wean your child solely from breastfeeding.” So these are questions that you may have or maybe you don't –
Lauren: But everyone is telling you –
Adrienne: Yeah everyone's telling you like the gender prediction of the shape of your–. I hear it all the time.
Maranda: The needle of the belly or you know– oh my gosh.
Adrienne: Right. And I'm like my you know my sonographer is wrong. And so yeah you're right. I can have a boy like I hear that talking all the time. Because, you know, you're carrying like you're having a boy. So I hear that all day long, we’re like–. And I heard it the last time and I had a girl child.
Maranda: Everyone tells you, “Oh you're high,” and then the next person that walks by, “Oh you're carrying so low,” and you’re like no, that’s different views.
Adrienne: Yeah different views. So I think knowing that it really won't – it doesn't matter it’s good. And then another book that really changed my idea of having a child is Ina May’s “Guide to Childbirth” by Ina May Gaskin. So I skimmed it during the first pregnancy. I did not read it cover-to-cover because I took classes, I had a doula and I like – I was like I don't – you know I'll figure it out. And I just educated myself in different ways. But this book I just kept hearing people say ‘It's amazing, it's amazing if you're about holistic birth then you know doing in a different way.’ And I read it and it changed my life about my body. And to read all these positive birth stories from these midwives that have been doing it since the 60s. They have a farm in Tennessee called The Farm. And people would come from all over to deliver their babies there and they live on. It's like a commune sort of, it was started by hippies. But women can go there and it's like they get free care and they have a farm literally where you raise food and then you have your child there.
Some people live there and work there, but I'm very – it’s very hippie, it’s very crunchy. I'm not super hippy or crunchy but I loved it. And there's a movie called the, ‘The Business of Being Born’ that was on Netflix, I don't know if it's still streaming, but it's – they –. So it's production, Ricki Lake produced it – the old television host. But so she has The Farm, Ina May Gaskin the author she's in that documentary. So that's how I was first exposed to this author, because she's a midwife. So they talk about you know the medicalization of pregnancy. And you know it's more about what our bodies can do.
And I had a really difficult first childbirth, because I didn't know what to expect and you don't know what to expect. And I had midwives the first time, and I had a new baby and it just didn't go how I wanted it to go, because I didn't understand really what was going on. I didn't really you know what our bodies could do and what, you know, intuition and the mind body connection and how important it is. And I have examples of, you know, if some of the woman's stressed out how their body reacts with their cervix like opening – it's just so crazy.
But I really found it very empowering and one of the most important messages that she gives is like your body is not a women. So when you have a baby sometimes we're always like troubleshooting the pregnancy like what went wrong or how to avoid what's wrong, but not trusting that our bodies can do this. And sometimes they can't, and sometimes you do need medical intervention and it's totally okay to do that.
But that book kind of made me think differently about how I approach childbirth and labor. I would recommend it to anyone, sounds like –. Even if you are into medical birth I would still read it just so you could get some inspiration.
Julie: I'm inspired.
David Payne: And now a brief message about MCPL’s Services and Resources.
Lisa: How exciting. You're going to be a new mom and we're here for you. MCPL not only has many books and DVDs on this most important topic, but our health databases can help you find the specific information you are seeking. You can find a link to our health resources in this episode’s show notes.
David Payne: Now back to our program.
Julie: So there are a lot of books suggested for moms, you know, and a lot of advice from moms, can both of you suggest or recommend books that are great for expectant dads.
Maranda: Well the book I got for my husband was called “The Expectant Father: The Ultimate Guide for Dads-To-Be” by Brott, my husband very slowly got into this. I think maybe around like the seventh trimester he was like, “Okay I'm going to read these – I am going to start reading.”
But he did become more and more interested as he went along. It has a month-to-month guide the trend here for dads sort of – like just like the Mayo Clinic has for them moms. But it also has a lot of topics that men worry about that maybe women don't have at the forefront of their mind like the finances. A lot of men that's like, “We're having a baby, oh my God I need to start saving so much money.” It talks about that, it talks about balancing work and family. You know what – what to expect that your spouse is going through. But those other things that like come sort of first to their minds. It was a great book for them – for him to look at.
Adrienne: I brought that book to, as I am preparing for this question because my husband didn't read any book. He refused to, but I was like “Oh let me just see.”
Lauren: So he relied on you.
Adrienne: He relied on me, yeah. So I – the expectant father was awesome. I saw that and like even the titles, “What's going on with your partner physically and emotionally, what's going on with the baby, what's going with you as father.” Like I just thought that was awesome.
Maranda: It was one they could definitely flip through. They didn't have to read it cover-to-cover if they didn't want to. But yeah it was a good one.
Julie: So it was made just for dads.
Adrienne: There's another book called “The Birth Partner: The Complete Guide to Childbirth for Dads, Doulas, and Other Labor Companions.” So it's not just for dads it's for any, you know, anyone who's of company or men that's having a baby. I did not read it, but thought that it looked interesting. So I also found one that I don't recommend, but it’s “What to Expect When Your Wife Is Expanding.” Like time is hell. So I came across that.
Maranda: Just for the title –
Lauren: Expanding what.
Adrienne: And one of the sections is, “What is Your Wife Complaining About This Month.” So maybe it works, maybe it works for some men. I don't know, but –
Maranda: Read that one under the covers after –.
Adrienne: Yeah– don’t let your wife – exactly don’t let your wife see you reading it.
Lauren: Maybe there's the random man that's not going to read the other one.
Adrienne: This one honey.
Julie: Yeah there's something for everyone.
Lauren: Right. So in addition to ‘What to Expect When Your Wife is Expanding’ is there any other books or advice that you found particularly not helpful.
Adrienne: [0:20:04] So I think in general any book that tries to scare women into thinking about everything that could go wrong with their pregnancy or their body. And that one that makes pregnancies seem like an illness. Some of them are very like, like, like based on problems, but people would find that useful. I'm not saying that it's not helpful and if you're in that situation it helps. But personally I didn't.
Maranda: [0:20:30] For me I miss a little bit of the opposite of Adrienne. I'm not sent into really the holistic approach or anything I wanted it to be all about me. So any of those stories about -- oh, well, when I was pregnant dah, dah, dah, dah, like okay cool that's fine but I'm pregnant.
And I want my own experience. So that was sort of, I didn't mind hearing a little bit of advice here and there but I kind -- I wanted to know what to expect and more of a grander scheme of things. I didn't want to hear that in the second -- in the first trimester you're going to be super, super sick all the time. But what if I'm not? Like I don't want to be told I was going you know.
So I kind of wanted to sort of see all the sights, I didn't want to just hear one person's story. So anything that was more like seemed more biographical I shied away from.
Julie: So we do know after delivery people bring their kids to story times at the library, which brings me to this question. Do either of you have any favorite books you would recommend to read to newborns?
Maranda: Well, I'm going to tell you my husband's favorite. My husband loved reading to Lyla right off the bat even just like a week or two. I mean she can't even see that, right. He loved reading Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed.
Lauren: [0:21:52] Oh, yeah I remember that.
Maranda: [0:21:39] He loved doing that one. And then once Lyla started you know tracking you a little bit anything with color or numbers, she loves counting anytime you can even if the book doesn't have counting in it. Not about counting at all. You count those leaves on the page like that seemed more interesting than anything else. But yeah, to get those -- get those guys to read Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed you can't go wrong.
Adrienne: I liked that one. That was a good one. So I -- we read Goodnight Moon pretty early to her and loved it and it was the last book we read at night. And we'd say goodnight to everything in the room and the book. And then we'd say goodnight to the room and her actual room and then we put her down and it worked every time. So I have really good memories of that. Pat The Bunny by Dorothy Kunhardt, we don't own it because it's a touch-and-feel book so I imagine it may be --
Lauren: It gets destroyed.
Adrienne: Yeah. We maybe owned it before, but it gets destroyed but she really liked that book too and she was a little teeny baby. So those were the books that I enjoy reading to her.
Lauren: So do you have an idea of when you're going to bring your baby to get her very first library card.
Adrienne: Sure. So I brought my daughter when she was I think like two months or a month to get her first card. This one I'll do the same maybe even sooner. And you know you can bring your child from zero, you take them out of the house. The first place you can bring them is the library to get their own library card. Go to story time. It's never too early. We have the wonderful program 1000 books before kindergarten, so you can start right then getting your kid on her on his or her way to a thousand books for kindergarten.
Maranda: And coming to story time.
Adrienne: And coming to story time.
Maranda: So you get how many seashells just going to story time.
Lauren: [0:23:44] You do. You get so many....
Adrienne: Rack at the seashells.
Adrienne: We started bringing our child when she was six weeks to story time. So it was just. And she was just a little thing and didn't really pay attention but it was so nice to bring her there and she kind of looked at other babies and I would going to do the same with this baby. So yeah we are going to get her a card.
Maranda: We're sharing my card right now.
Adrienne: Which is fine.
Maranda: I just don't want too many to look hang on to at the moment. So when she -- yeah. For right now we're going to share mommy's.
Lauren: [0:24:17] Kind of where we're at in our house too.
Julie: So are there any other programs or resources that you would like to mention that are actually specifically geared toward expectant moms as well as new moms.
Adrienne: [0:24:32] Sure. So we talked about story times three little ones and 1000 books before kindergarten, which is our system wide program to encourage early literacy from zero to five year olds. Also I would say there's yoga classes and meditation classes, which are good if your yoga is good. If you're expecting be careful don't do any of the crazy poses. Prenatal DVDs which I find I really helpful. So exercise or prenatal yoga there's like a prenatal like weightlifting like one that I use. It's awesome.
Maranda: Download your play list off for Eagle for the delivery room.
Adrienne: And when they're -- like all the newborn nursery rhymes too, you have playlists for that. Those are very helpful..
Maranda: We offer for free. And we have our discovery rooms several of the branches have playrooms for the kids that have early literacy toys. So if you're someone like Adrienne and you have a 3 year old and you can have a newborn it's a contained space for them to play and you know maybe run around a little bed and get out some of the energy and you can't lose them.
Adrienne: And also our health databases. So if you have questions about pregnancy you can use. I don't remember the titles exactly right now of those databases but we'll put them in the show notes for you to look at.
Julie: And what's so great about all of this is that we offer all these resources you know and there is something for everyone. And the bottom line is it's free. So on Library Matters we like to ask all of our guests what are you reading right now that you want to tell us about Adrienne?.
Adrienne: [0:25:58] Sure. So reading is something I enjoy and that I don't get to do very often. Having a 3 year old. So aside from lots of picture books my daughter loves Madeline and books with horses and mermaids, and she likes anything with the frozen characters. So aside from that what I'm what am I reading, so I just finished the looming tower by Lawrence Wright. It's so good. There's a TV show, there's a TV show on. Actually it's on Hulu. And this is a book that the show is based on, it's nonfiction. It's about the rise of al-Qaeda. I find it very interesting it talks about the book half of the book talks about the history of the Muslim Brotherhood and history of the Middle East and how you know Saudi Arabia and Egypt and it just it's so interesting to me because I don't know a lot about that region of the world. So I finished that and it was so good that I'm obsessed. Also I just finished a fiction book called The Woman in the Window by A.J. Finn. It is supposedly the Gone Girl of 2018. I finished it. So that's good.
That means it was engaging. I couldn't put it down and I kept reading it. And then so I finished those two but I'm currently reading black flags by Joby Warrick and that's about ISIS. I'm also -- there's a parenting book called There's No Such Thing as Bad Weather. A Scandinavian Mom Secrets her raising healthy resilient and confident kids from -- it's a Swedish name. So this is the title, a Scandanavian Mom's Secret for Raising Healthy, Resilient and Confident Kids (from Friluftsliv to Hygge) and those are Swedish words [Crosstalk] by Linda Åkeson McGurk. And it's about embracing nature and making your kids go out and explore and
Lauren: How about you Maranda, anything you're dying to tell us about?
Maranda: Well it's a go with the baby theme first before my pleasure reading. We're just starting solids for Lyla so I'm we're clueless. We have no idea what to do. So I just checked out the other day Super Baby Food by Yaron. So I'm going to look through that and hopefully get know what to give her next.
We started with avocado thought that was pretty safe and she loves it. But in terms of pleasure reading I sort of like my escapism in my books. Give me a good fantasy any day. So I'm actually reading the book two of The Ancestor. It's called Grey Sister by Mark Lawrence. It's an adult fantasy novel that takes place in this world covered by ice. There is like a 50 mile corridor along the Earth's equator where everyone lives.
And the story follows this pretty violent girl who is training to become a nun.
But these are like Kick-butt Nuns like --
Lauren: [0:29:11] I love stories about Kick-butt Nuns.
Maranda: Think like Harry Potter school meets Mortal Kombat. So it's pretty entertaining and that's a book too so. It's a new release and I'm really enjoying it.
Julie: [0:29:28] All sounds wonderful. So once again I would like to thank both Maranda and Adrianne for joining us today. We really appreciate all the information you've given us. Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also please review and read us on Apple podcast, we'll love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today and see you next time.
[End of transcript]
David Payne: Welcome to Library Matters with your host David Payne.
Julie Dina: And I'm Julie Dina.
David Payne: And today we’re going to take you outside in a matter of speaking to the garden. I think it's safe to say that spring is finally here. I hope it is and in spring it's always a time when many of us start thinking about our gardens. So what better than to invite one of our green thumb librarians, Beth Chandler, avid gardener to join us today and talk about her garden and her passion for gardening. So Beth, welcome.
Beth Chandler: Thank you, David. I’m glad to be here. And I've already gotten started on my garden with some cool season items such as spinach.
David Payne: Very good, very good I'm actually glad to see you back. Listeners may remember Beth from her previous appearance talking about sci-fi and I know you enjoyed it so much you’ve come back.
Beth Chandler: I have many interests and as one of the selectors I buy our garden books for the library and landscaping books.
David Payne: All right, that sounds like fun.
Beth Chandler: It is. I enjoy that.
Julie Dina: So Beth, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and actually what got you interested in gardening?
Beth Chandler: Well, I grew up on the outskirts of a small town and my dad had grown up on a farm so we had gardens growing up. I like to play in the dirt, including practical things like digging up the dirt and planting cucumber seeds, which were one of my favorites. And my grandmother had a truck farm so I got to see something more extensive operation when I visited her. And that's what got me interested and then as an adult I started getting interested in eating organic foods and I missed the fresh foods that I could get growing up.
David Payne: So Beth you obviously have a very great passion for gardening. What do you particularly enjoy about it?
Beth Chandler: There are many things. I find it – it makes me feel very serene. I love working in the Earth and with the Earth making things grow as satisfying. It's something that I can enjoy and that I and also my husband and anyone else I might share things with gets the bounty of everything from strawberries to lettuces and baby carrots. Also I like it because it gets me out of the house in relaxing and it more or less coincides with Formula One season which my husband will be watching on TV so he doesn't feel like a gardening widower and I don't feel like a Formula One widow.
David Payne: So you leave him in the house and you go out and do.
Beth Chandler: Yes, I do.
David Payne: Sounds like a good comprise.
Beth Chandler: Then I come in and say look fresh baby carrots for dinner.
David Payne: So Beth there are many different kinds of gardening activities we can do with flowers, with vegetables, with herbs, what do you most enjoy do you do a bit of everything or do you prefer specializing in one or the other?
Beth Chandler: I prefer everything. I grow fruit for flowers, vegetables, herbs we also had some wonderful plantings already in our yard when we moved into our home. So I do some pruning too.
David Payne: And are there any particular kind of herbs that you particularly enjoy?
Beth Chandler: I like some of the easier to grow herbs such as parsley and oregano. So my absolute favorite is lilacs and year after we moved in I was determined I was going to buy and plant a lilac tree and I did. Seem to have a bit of a problem with powdery mildew last year but I'm hopeful for this year and every year I get more of those wonderful fragrant blossoms.
David Payne: You almost smell the fragrance.
Beth Chandler: Oh, yes.
Julie Dina: Smelling it now.
Beth Chandler: Yes, they’re in leaf.
Julie Dina: One thing for sure is for the plants and the herbs for them to grow they need water. Thus, the popular phrase April showers brings May flowers. So can you share with us tips on how to get the best garden in the block.
Beth Chandler: Well, water as you said is very important and watering when we have dry seasons which we often do in the summer here in Maryland. Having good soil is important. You can buy pretty cheap pH test to see what the acid or base level of your garden soil is. If you have really bad soil which I did you might prefer to do container pots and fill them with materials you buy from a garden store, at least at the beginning. I've also done some composting and put compost in. You can also amend the soil which is another word for putting in fertilizer or digging in mulch or manure whatever your particular plant needs. But pay attention to what it says your plant needs on the little piece that’s stuck into the pot or if you buy seeds on the back of the seed packet it’s really helpful.
Julie Dina: I never knew that that’s the first thing I tossed out.
David Payne: Not anymore.
Julie Dina: No wonder they don’t live.
Beth Chandler: You need to be careful is it full sun, part sun, part shade or full shade.
Julie Dina: And you hear that folks.
David Payne: So do you have any particularly favorite flowers or plants?
Beth Chandler: Well I mentioned the lilacs.
David Payne: Yeah.
Beth Chandler: And I was also happy when we moved in to find out that we had beautiful pink climbing roses which are scented. They only bloom for a few weeks but I think they're worth it. And then of course I plant other things around them such as morning glories, which bloom later in the year. So that part of the garden is colorful for a good portion of the growing season.
David Payne: Let me just ask a follow-up to that. Do you obviously some people for perennial, some people for annuals, their advantages, disadvantages to both how do you feel about the perennial, annual question?
Beth Chandler: I love to have both. And since I grow vegetables and herbs many of them are annuals. Although there are some perennials, I'm convinced you just can't kill chives. And oregano is just as sturdy so I like to have some perennials but then I also can't resist annuals. I recently bought a geranium which I'm coddling indoors until it’s warm enough to put it out. And I love pansies here in Maryland we can keep them growing at least till November and if you're lucky they’ll come back in the spring.
Julie Dina: Now if you could grow anything in your garden that doesn't already grow on a plant such as money, candy what exactly would you pick to plant?
Beth Chandler: Well, money is always good because you can buy just about anything with which. But you know, already fully formed chocolates since I can’t really grow my own the cacao trees around here would be good. And of course there is books.
Julie Dina: Have you ever thought about doing any of those?
Beth Chandler: It is tempting. I just found a wonderful I love for Pinterest for Garden Ideas and I just found one which showed a little bookcase with books in it and I thought maybe my favorite garden needs some books in it.
Julie Dina: That will make it unique.
David Payne: So almost the business question since you’re a selector in our collection management department, what's new in gardening books that you’re really excited about?
Beth Chandler: Well, there has been contain in gardening things for a while and I've noticed recently there is real surge in the last couple of years in butterfly and be friendly plants to help keep our pollinators fed and healthy. Also I recently bought a new book on permaculture it just came into the branches, The Minimalist Gardener which is from England, but still has a lot of ideas that are relevant to our Mid-Atlantic climate here in Maryland.
Julie Dina: David, you should know about that particular book since you’re from England.
David Payne: I have to check it out, yeah.
Beth Chandler: And I should explain permaculture is something that will go on long-term. Usually it's also a very diverse sort of garden and the minimalist ideas that you plant things that are either native to the area or that can do with very little assistance in which since so many of us are very busy and stressed these days it is nice to plant a garden that you only have to do a little bit of work and doesn't require hours every weekend.
David Payne: Well, keeping with the books theme, are there any particular books that you have read that have really helped you or formed you as a gardener?
Beth Chandler: I've read more all across from things on the internet, you can't trust everything on the internet but you really can just about trust just about anything you get from a cooperative extension website, Maryland Cooperative Extension has some good things and does Maryland Master Gardeners. And also there is a book I referred to regularly it's called What's Wrong with My Plant by Deardorff and Wadsworth.
We do have several copies in the library. It's wonderful because it shows pictures of the various kinds of spots in the way bits and other things you might find on your plant leaves or stems or in the fruit. So it's very helpful for finding out what you need to do and it leans towards organic resources and it tells you that the safest and then going to conventional things when you need to kill off a really nasty pest.
David Payne: Sounds very useful.
Beth Chandler: Yeah.
Julie Dina: So Beth we do know there are lots of books that are actually in our library system for adults who enjoy gardening. Would you say we have plenty of books for children who are actually interested in gardening and would like to check any of these books out?
Beth Chandler: We do have a new series for children. The titles are Super Simple Butterfly Gardens and then other thing Super Simple I think there is Indoor Gardens and so on. So if you just type in super simple you should come up with a list and see what kind of a garden you and your child or children want to grow.
Julie Dina: And so what you're saying these books are really simple.
Beth Chandler: They're really easy, yes. And so they also might be good for adults who want to start from the very beginning or who decide it might be better if they have a child help them. Yeah, they can really help with the digging I'm sure a lot of children.
Julie Dina: That's the one I'll be checking out. Now to be successful in gardening do you really need the gift of the green thumb?
Beth Chandler: Not really. My mother, for example, has a rather black thumb. And she would be the first to admit herself and if you get plants that are fairly unkillable and just manage to water them and if you’re fortunate enough to either have good soil or to be able to buy some you can do fine. There are some very easy to grow plants marigolds are pretty easy and you can buy them just about anywhere, including off in the grocery store and just pop them in your yard. Cucumbers actually grow in really bad soil so they're pretty easy. And the aforementioned pansies are easy. It's just about impossible as I said to kill parsley or oregano or chives. So those are some I’d recommend for people who really feel they have a black thumb. And as long as you water them when it gets a bit dry outside you should do okay.
Julie Dina: I’m going to go out and purchase those.
David Payne: There you go. We’ll check back and see how you’re doing.
Julie Dina: Yeah, a successful gardener.
David Payne: So having said that what recommendations do you have for anybody who is just starting out in gardening and may be a bit overwhelmed or find it intimidating or has no experience. How would you get them started? What advice would you give or any particular books you might suggest for them?
Beth Chandler: I would say start with some of the herbs I mentioned that are easy to grow or maybe marigolds, pansies, zinnias are fairly easy to grow also. Our flower, state flower, the Blackeyed Susan is also very easy to grow and does well in our hot dry summers. One of the recent books we got would be pretty good. It's called The New Small Garden and since we do live in an area on the very edge of a major city a lot of people don't have much room. So that one again caught The New Small Garden would be helpful to most people. We also have a wonderful book Mid-Atlantic Getting Started Garden Guide. It's a few years old but it's specifically targeted at our area. So if you're doubtful about your ability to pick plants or to do the things that fit this climate that's where to go.
Julie Dina: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Lisa Navidi: Love to garden but have a brown thumb or a problem with a specific plant or a flower MCPL can help. Our dedicated Master Gardeners visit several Montgomery County branches from April through September and are there to answer your questions and calm your fears. You can find more information about our Master Gardener Program and are many other gardening resources in this episode show notes.
Julie Dina: Now back to our program. What would be your recommendation for those who say you know, I don't really have much time, I'm busy but I'll like to plant my own herbs or my own plants?
Beth Chandler: I would say you start with a window garden or just a couple of pots on your front or back porch. And herbs the seeds or seedlings are pretty cheap and you can get a lot of return for your money and you won’t have to run out to buy parsley if you want some for the dinner that you have planned.
Julie Dina: Any other ones?
Beth Chandler: We have all kinds of books. If you want to just try a little terrarium and you can build them so they are mostly self-sustaining and will go on with maybe a drop of water. There is also growing perfect vegetables, which I don't know how perfect one can actually get them but does give a lot of assistance. And there is one or two books on particularly growing things in the shade such as Glorious Shade.
So if you have a little shady backyard that might be a good book to pick up to find out what will grow well. And I can tell you again one of my favorites parsley does grow well in the shade, and so do salad greens if you want to stop buying those packaged salad greens all the time and spending all that money for the cost of one you could get maybe two packets of mixed greens to plant in your yard.
Julie Dina: And where will I get the seeds for those because I'm always buying packets of salads that would be me.
Beth Chandler: Home & Garden shop, some larger grocery stores, health food stores, garden and nursery shops, lot of different places.
David Payne: Now talking about vegetables I mean, I've always found it fairly easy to grow tomatoes well varying success. But amongst the different kinds of tomato are there ones that you suggest the easier perhaps to grow, perhaps with the new gardener you might just want to plunk them in there and keep watering or they both all about the same as far as the work involved in the maintenance.
Beth Chandler: Oh, I have a confession. I have no luck in growing tomatoes on my own. I don't know why. I would say that for cucumbers, which as I mentioned are easy and grow in soil that’s not very high quality. Straight Eight's brand comes up pretty well. They don't have those scary curves that make them hard to peel. And Spacemaster which is probably a brand name but any bush type cucumbers you could even grow in a large-size planter pot if you just have an apartment and no access to an actual plot of land.
Julie Dina: You've given us a lot of recommendations and I know there are people who would say you know I don't really have enough space. I only have a balcony or a windowsill that I will like to maximize its use. Do you have any recommendations for such people?
Beth Chandler: Again, definitely a little windowsill garden with herbs and it doesn't have to be windowsill, your sill might not be large enough. If you have a table reasonably near the sun you can put a few small pots or maybe even one or two. I have a friend who does that she always keeps catnip for her cats in one of the windowsill gardens.
Julie Dina: Any particular ones that grow easily?
Beth Chandler: The catnip and most mints aren't too bad and it’s the usual for. Also if you remember the parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme. Thyme can be a little tricky, but the other three aren’t too bad.
Julie Dina: Okay, I'll give it some thyme.
Beth Chandler: Actually excuse me it’s rosemary that's a bit tricky.
Julie Dina: And rosemary too.
David Payne: I was waiting for a follow-up with that.
Julie Dina: Well, you got it.
Beth Chandler: But the parts parsley, the sage if anyone needs oregano you can come to my place. I always have more than I need that's how well it grows. I attempted to use it as a groundcover.
David Payne: Well, MCPL has a lot of resources for the gardener. Any particular resources that you can particularly recommend such as the Master Gardening Program?
Beth Chandler: Well, I notice that currently the Master Gardeners in the Davis area are holding plant workshops. You can bring your plant and find out how to take care of it or perhaps cure it. There are Master Gardeners all over and I fondly remember the ones at Aspen Hill who kept up the beautiful flowers at the entryway to Aspen Hill and actually identified one of the flowers that was doing particularly well in the middle of a hot summer so I’ll pass that on. Coreopsis is a perennial, you can buy it plant it once. And as long as you don't let it get totally waterless when we have a drought, it will pretty much keep on blooming for a couple of months at least.
But definitely the Master Gardeners since they pop up various places and the Master Gardeners, there is as I had mentioned there is a Maryland organization and they’re smaller chapters. There is usually at least one in every town, sometimes multiple ones. And if you go on your local email discussion list or patch and then of course for your library website you can get help from the Master Gardeners who are people who know a lot about plants and gardening and get together and learn even more about it.
Julie Dina: So since we’re still talking about the Master Gardeners I remember when I worked at the Wheaton branch we had a lot of customers who would come in Saturday morning because the Master Gardeners would have workshops at the Wheaton Library. Now do they offer these workshops at all of our branches or only specific ones?
Beth Chandler: Specific ones at different times. You can check our events section to find out who is offering it. Just put in the word gardening and you will find what they're doing.
Julie Dina: And does it cost anything?
Beth Chandler: No programs at the library are free so that would not cost anything. So if you want to learn to become a Master Gardener you don't need to already be good. You can just find out when they’re meeting and go to a meeting and often they use library meeting rooms.
Julie Dina: Do you know how often they offer that?
Beth Chandler: I think meetings are usually monthly but it depends on the group.
David Payne: Now being an expert with a green thumb do you plan on attending the Montgomery County GreenFest on May 5?
Beth Chandler: Well, I have to take a look because I think that might be the same weekend as something related to another one of my hobbies the Maryland Sheep and Wool festival since I’m a crocheter. So I could have a conflict of hobbies. [Multiple Speakers]
Julie Dina: Watch out the next episode.
David Payne: So Beth now that you’ve made gardeners out of all of us as you know from your previous appearance we usually end our podcast by asking you what you’re reading now. So anything that you have read recently or reading now that you care to tell us about.
Beth Chandler: As I mentioned before, I just started The Minimalist Gardener to find out how I can have a wonderful garden for less and hopefully take up more of the backyard, which means less mowing the lawn. And in other areas speaking of my crocheting and that I have other hobbies I am reading Crafting for Cat Ladies.
Julie Dina: Sounds good.
Beth Chandler: Yes.
Julie Dina: I guess you’re a cat lady then.
Beth Chandler: Oh, I’m a totally crazy cat lady. I have one cat and that's all it took. So I might even be making something in his colors, silver gray and jade green.
Julie Dina: Well, that's been very enlightening. Thank you so much Beth for joining us today. Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please review and rate us on Apple podcast. We’ll love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today and see you next time.
Lauren Martino: Hello and welcome to Library Matters. I'm Lauren Martino and I'm here with my co-host David Payne.
David Payne: Hello.
Lauren Martino: And today we are here with our Outreach and Programs Assistant Director, Mary Ellen Icaza. Welcome to the show Mary Ellen.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Thank you for having me.
Lauren Martino: And here with us as well, we’re welcoming Laura Sarantis, Library Associate at Gaithersburg.
Laura Sarantis: It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me too.
Lauren Martino: So could you Mary Ellen tell us a little bit about yourself. What got you interested in library programming, how did you get to where you are today?
Mary Ellen Icaza: Sure, well, I've worked for Montgomery County Libraries for a total of 14 years, but I had a break when I left the libraries and I went to work for Montgomery County Public Schools and a government consulting company. But my true love of libraries lured me back to Montgomery County Public Libraries. And my current position is the Assistant Director for Programs and Outreach as you mentioned. And I’ve always had an interest I think in library programming even when I was a new librarian at the Greenbelt Public Library in Prince George’s County. I was a librarian in a generalist branch. I did story times, I did book discussions for adults and children and I also taught basic computer classes, how to search the Internet.
And then even when I was working in the unit called Virtual Services, it's now called Digital Strategies, we were tasked with promoting library events and programs. So library programs and events have always been at the forefront of the work I've been doing at libraries. And we would cover the events on social media, on Twitter and on Facebook and always looking for ways that we could get the word out about library programs. So in my current position I'm working on programs in a different way, but I think I've always been passionate about library programs.
Lauren Martino: And Laura, tell us a little bit about yourself, how did you get into library programming like what makes you excited to be here talking about it today?
Laura Sarantis: Well, actually I was hired as a teen librarian 10 years ago. So it's actually part of my job description to do programming. I had no idea what I was doing when I started here a decade ago. This is actually a second career for me. My previous incarnation was as an online editor. I was a Database Editor for Congressional Quarterly in the 90s at a time when things were changing rapidly, and they were bringing their dial-up service to the World Wide Web. And then I was a web editor for the Humane Society in the United States and that I was sort of burnt out on. When you deal with animal protection, there is always something bad happening to an animal so we have a – something we call compassion fatigue where I kind of gotten sad and couldn't watch Animal Planet anymore.
Lauren Martino: That’s a problem.
Laura Sarantis: It is a problem. I was a page when I was in high school and in college. So I thought well, I’m going to just look at library jobs. So this was supposed to just be a sabbatical from online editing and I just loved it so much. The programming part of it, it took me a while to get on top of that. Early on, I just had no idea what I was doing, no idea how to get kids into the library. Now it's going really well and so it’s – we’re doing better with that now.
David Payne: So programming is one of the many hats that we as librarians work with – work in. Perhaps, Mary Ellen I could ask you to actually define what programming, what library programming is for the benefit of our listeners.
Lauren Martino: Because it doesn’t have anything to do with Java or Scratch or –.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Well, actually Lauren, it could if we're offering a library program on computer programming, right. So library programming are events that our library system or any library system around the country provides to our customers that support lifelong learning and connecting them to ideas and to resources for things that they can use in their daily lives. And an important thing to know is that all of the programs we offer at the library are free, which is incredible. Programs can be led by library staff, such as our story times that are led by professional librarians or library associates or we can work with partners to come in to do presentations and performances or authors that we might contract to do programs as well.
David Payne: So if someone was interested in presenting a program how should they approach the library to find out more information?
Mary Ellen Icaza: Well, there is a couple of different things they can do. If they are interested in working with a particular library branch for example, Laura, she works at the Gaithersburg library. They can connect with staff at that particular branch or if they're interested in doing a program that might involve several different branches they can work with my programming team and we have a form available on our website. If people want to submit a program proposal and we ask a lot of questions to make sure that it is in line with other programming that we’re doing. And if it's in line with our strategic plan and our mission and our vision and we can help coordinate amongst different branches that way.
David Payne: Great, thank you.
Lauren Martino: I find it interesting that both of you have these really strong technology backgrounds, right. Like I don’t see a storyteller, I don't see you know basket making, I see web editor and digital strategies, digital services. What do think that says about how library programming is changing – is evolving, but it looks like today versus what it look like in the past?
Mary Ellen Icaza: I think it says a lot about our changing society. I think the jobs that Laura and I both had I didn't know Laura was an online editor actually, so that's interesting I learned something new. But 30 years ago those jobs didn't exist and we at the library probably at that time were offering very traditional programs like story times and book discussions. And I think as society has changed and technology has grown and STEM, science, technology, engineering and math have become even more visible as career pathways for kids the library has responded to that with the programming that we’re offering.
So I don't think you know 20, 30 years ago you would've seen classes on computer programming or girls just want to code that kind of thing. And I think it says a lot about the library that we want to offer programs that appeal to our community so that we are offering things that are relevant to their lives. For instance, I don't think that there were yoga and meditation classes years ago, but now that's something that a lot of our library branches are offering. So I think as a whole libraries evolved with the times to meet the needs of our communities.
David Payne: The library is really more, really very much a community center.
Laura Sarantis: Yeah, I like to say people will be like, oh, it must be nice to work in the library. You can sit there and it's quiet and you can read. And I’m like the library is now a social service agency and that is that's a really important role for us to have in the community. It's more than just books you know we have to prepare young people to compete in an economy that's based – it's an information age economy. So sometimes we have seniors who come in and say, “Well, why do you have computers here instead of just books?” Well, you know, do you want your grandchild to be able to get a job when they get out of school? You know, they’re going to have to be very literate in computers.
Lauren Martino: It’s getting to be as important as like reading literacy, isn’t it?
Laura Sarantis: Right, but and there are also there are other I think educators have known for a long time that there is a lot of different ways that you can learn things besides just reading it in a book. And doing something – doing an activity is much more useful than reading about it. Like for example, we said seniors – we just had a senior tech series on Sundays where a volunteer came in and just sat down with a group of seniors to teach them how to use computers. And they could've read all the books in the library on using computers, but nothing is going to replace pushing a key and seeing what the machine does when you –. It's a two-way interaction that you have with technology that you can't really learn it just from a book. So in that respect, I think you know our services are, we've expanded our services so that we can meet that need in the community.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And I think it also takes into account that people learn in many different ways.
Laura Sarantis: Yes.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And that not all education has to happen in the traditional sense in a classroom. And many of our programs have become much more hands-on like Laura was saying you know kids are doing experiments in the STEM programs and the seniors are learning to use their devices and it acknowledges that learning can happen in a myriad of ways. And that learning can happen you know, in the library can happen at home, it can happen in the classroom. And not everybody learns the same way, so like I think that is one of the things that have been an area where libraries have really evolved so that we’re not just books like Laura says, and reading and all of that is still really, really core to what we do. But our role has definitely expanded into the types of areas where we’re offering programs.
David Payne: Well, Laura, Mary Ellen a bit earlier mentioned the very successful girls just want to compute program which you involve with. Tell us about the program, how it came about?
Laura Sarantis: Well, it came about – it was started by a Poolesville High School student a few years ago. She noticed that in school a lot of the computer clubs and engineering groups were sort of dominated by young men instead of girls. And she started meeting with a bunch of girls at the Germantown Library. It started out kind of as a coding club. She turned it into a curriculum and started inviting younger students in to teach them Python coding. So she graduated. She is now I believe a sophomore at Yale University, but the program went on. She had trained some younger high school students to continue teaching it – that's how we met Cindy who is one of the volunteers who has done other programming for us in Gaithersburg and it's very, very popular.
The girls just – the girls really enjoy it. The parents love it and it's a different feel when it's just girls, when it's just girls teaching girls. They definitely have a more cooperative learning style. When they’re problem solving it, they're not competing, they’re doing it together. So it offers something special just for girls who might feel that there, you know, they don't have the opportunity to do that at their school where they’re kind of being drowned out maybe by the boys sometimes.
Lauren Martino: That's such a great education and leadership I'm so impressed that your volunteer not only put together this amazing program, but was able to train people to do the same thing after her that's huge.
Laura Sarantis: Yes.
Lauren Martino: So you’re not only just offering the program for the people that are doing the program, I imagine the benefits are huge for the teen volunteers as well.
Laura Sarantis: Sometimes people wonder if we have any secrets or what's the secret to good programming or people have asked what do you know that you wish other librarians knew. And my secret weapon is that teenagers themselves, high school students can themselves initiate and run very compelling, wonderful, exciting library programs. And we've been very fortunate that we've had a few teens who have been doing this sort of thing at Gaithersburg.
But sometimes I wish another teen would come to me and say, well, you know, I just know something about astronomy and I have a good telescope and I just want to show some kids some constellations. It doesn't have to be, it doesn’t have to be really technical. It doesn't have to be advanced or sophisticated. It's kids leading other kids and that's a very viable form of programming. Sometimes we have a girls robotics class at Gaithersburg that's taught by Cindy who is one of the girls just want to compute teachers. And it's her and her sister and other high school students teaching girls who are between the ages of nine and 13. And sometimes I walk in the room and I can feel that the mood shift like oh, a grown up just walked in the room, yuk.
And they’re all on task, they're all focused, they’re all writing programs, they’re not goofing off where I’m coming into sort of break it up. It's just sort of a different vibe. The teenagers can connect with the younger girls in a way that adult librarians just can't. So that's something that I think is – that’s kind of our hidden weapon I guess at Gaithersburg for programming. But I really I’m going to look forward to trying to find other teens who can come into the library and who have certain skills and can share those with younger kids because nine times out of 10, they’re going to do a fantastic job with it.
David Payne: You’re absolutely right. We’ve really had some very dynamic program with teenagers.
Lauren Martino: Mary Ellen, can you tell us about the most memorable library program that you've been a part of?
Mary Ellen Icaza: I would have to say most recently the most memorable program to me was a speaker series that we implemented last year. It was our first speaker series and the title of it is contemporary conversations. And it's a program series where we invite authors and journalists and other well-known figures to come to the library to do a presentation and a Q&A session with the public. And we had some really terrific speakers last year and they were the first large-scale programs of this nature that we did. Our first speaker was Kojo Nnamdi from NPR.
Lauren Martino: I remember that, yeah.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And we had over 200 people.
Lauren Martino: That was amazing.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And we held it at the Gaithersburg library and that was totally cool that people came from all over the county to attend that program on a – it was a Saturday night. And it was just really great to see people coming from as far as Burtonsville, they came from Damascus, they came from all over the county. And then we went on to have conversations at a couple of other locations. Silver Spring was another one. We had Charles Lane from the Washington Post come. And he did a conversation with the County Executive Leggett and they had a dialog about a book that Charles Lane had written. And it was just so neat to see people interested in a particular topic and want to come together as a large group to discuss it. We are going to have this series continue on this spring and we are so fortunate that we are part of a grant that we've been awarded called The Big Read and we’re partnering with several different organizations.
The Friends of the Library, Montgomery County, Montgomery Community Media, Gaithersburg Book Festival and Montgomery History. And our theme is the immigrant experience. And the book that we've chosen for The Big Read is Dinaw Mengestu's The Beautiful Things That Heaven Bears. And we’re doing programs all spring long on it, but The Big Read program will end in June on June 9th. We’re going to have a contemporary conversation with Dinaw Mengestu, the author who is going to come to speak to the community. So we’re so thrilled about that that we’re able to bring an author of his caliber to the community to talk with our community and do a Q&A and have a large event like that at Silver Spring.
David Payne: And Mary Ellen, where can listeners find out more information about The Big Read?
Mary Ellen Icaza: The Big Read, we have a section on our website and if people want to go to our homepage they'll see a big icon that says The Big Read.
Lauren Martino: Hard to miss.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Right, and not only are we having the author come in June but we’re having a slew of book discussions on his book. There will be an Ethiopian coffee ceremony. There will be panels on immigrating to Montgomery County. And there also will be events at various branches and locations throughout the spring.
Lauren Martino: Because this book actually part of it focuses on Montgomery County doesn't it?
Mary Ellen Icaza: It's, he was a local writer. Yes.
Lauren Martino: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Febe Huezo: Mom, I’m heading out for yoga.
Julie Dina: I thought you were going to the library.
Febe Huezo: I am.
Julie Dian: Uh?
Febe Huezo: Oh, mom, the library isn’t just a room full of books. It’s a place where people meet and learn. Did you know that the library offers tai chi classes, career workshops and even computer help?
Julie Dina: You should try it.
Febe Huezo: Mom.
Julie Dina: I am upstairs getting ready sweetheart.
Lauren Martino: For more information on Montgomery County Public Library’s Diverse programs and classes click on the link in this episode show notes.
Now back to our program.
David Payne: Can you give us some examples of some more unusual or perhaps nontraditional library programming that you’ve both been involved with to start with Mary Ellen?
Mary Ellen Icaza: Sure, I had to think about this one for a bit. But the one example that I came up with is the Read to a Dog program. I think it is pretty common in libraries, but whenever I tell somebody who doesn't work in a library they always are a little surprised that we do this program. But it's such a terrific program and as a mom of somebody who is a reluctant reader I think it's fantastic. We partner up with people who have trained therapy dogs and they bring in their pets and kids, reluctant readers often or kids who are little intimidated about practicing their reading can read one-on-one with the dog and it's a wildly successful program. We have them at many of our different branches and it’s not always the same dog, it's different dogs at different branches. But it's such a boost to the kids confidence to practice their reading and you know they also get to spend time with the cuddly dog too.
Lauren Martino: And we've had customers come in and it's not only an opportunity to practice reading it's my kids afraid of dogs.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Oh, okay. Another purpose.
Lauren Martino: Yes, this is your chance to get used to this nice tiny little dog that's perfectly well behaved in its owners lap and will not hurt you in a controlled environment.
Laura Sarantis: Very gentle, very sweet animals and that is I know a couple of people who have brought their kids and who they’ve been intimidated by big dogs and to make them a little bit less so.
Lauren Martino: Laura, do you have an unusual program you'd like to tell us about?
Laura Sarantis: Well, sometimes you find some wild stuff at the library. And it’s a step that you would never think to find but then it comes to you and you're like, well, why not. So we had a group last year called Harp Happy it’s a group of women who play harps together but they play music that you don't traditionally associate with harps. And they at the end of their program they do this thing called name that show, name that song where they’ll play like jingles from old television shows like The Jeffersons or MASH. And the audience has to guess what the song is or what the show is and it can be pretty hilarious, it was –.
Lauren Martino: I’m just trying to picture The Jeffersons played on the harp. [Multiple Speakers]
Laura Sarantis: I can't remember if that’s one that they played. For some reason that popped into my head and I know that they did the MASH theme song. And I'm pretty sure they did the theme from the Lone Ranger. We really haven't lived until you, until heard the William Tell overture played on the harp so.
David Payne: And another benefit of having a program like that because we had the Harp Happy group at the Davis Library. And I remember at the end of it that people actually come up and see the harp close up, touch it, cluck the strings, not the kind of opportunities that you always get so that was a great benefit.
Lauren Martino: You know, I’ll let the kids do that with my ukulele at the end of story times, sometimes but a harp man, that would be exciting.
David Payne: Exactly, yeah.
Mary Ellen Icaza: The ukulele is actually something that I would like to see us do more with.
Lauren Martino: Really.
Mary Ellen Icaza: I’ve heard of other library systems that in addition to incorporating into story times they’re also offering ukulele classes and ukulele lessons for their customers. And it just sounds so cool to me you know, to be able to learn how to play the ukulele at the library.
David Payne: It’s actually very interesting. You mentioned the ukulele because in the other podcast episode which we recorded – just recorded on retro technology the ukulele was brought up as a returning instrument, that’s making a comeback.
Lauren Martino: That's a good point and yeah, I never thought of, I mean, we've got like the ArtistWorks where you can do online classes on the ukulele. Thank goodness the ukulele is there, but yeah, group class that would be amazing.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Are you up for it?
Lauren Martino: I would go to Susan Modak first or Sissy Williams. Sissy Williams is amazing sorry, it’s okay shot out to Sissy. Go to her Story Time at Noyes but yeah, just that people have come through and customers that have come through Noyes and just leave like knowing a few chords and come back and say I’m still playing. I just was amazed. I mean, gosh, Sissy got me playing the ukulele. She got –.
Mary Ellen Icaza: I’ve seen groups of children's librarians at meetings you know they all bring out their ukuleles and start playing. So it’s really cool here that you’ve learned how to play from one of your colleagues.
Lauren Maritno: Yes.
Laura Sarantis: Oh, is there a definite ukulele subculture. I’m going to show new librarians in Montgomery County system.
Laruen Martino: Little known fact, yes. So besides ‘More Ukulele’ all right, gosh, that just like sounds like more cowbell, ‘More Ukulele.’ Besides ‘More Ukulele’ is there any other programs from other places you've seen that you just really love to bring the Montgomery County that hasn't then quite made it here yet?
Mary Ellen Icaza: Well, there is one that we do have in the works. I had read an article in Library Journal or something like that about the Harry Potter ball that they had. I think it was Salt Lake City and we did a very successful celebration last June of the publishing anniversary of Harry Potter.
Lauren Martino: Although his birthday was nearby if I was correct.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Exactly, yeah. So we did our celebration in June and I think his birthday is in July. So all of the branches each had a program, you know, celebrating Harry in some way. They did wand making, they might've had a trivia contest. And I love the idea because our comic our MoComCon has been so successful in the winter if we could do something in the summer. And I actually got the idea when I saw one of our partners at the MoComCon dressed as Hermione. I didn’t even recognize her.
Lauren Martino: Wow.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And I thought “Wow, people are really still into Harry.” You know, based on the success of the wand making I remember they ran out of wands last year at Davis and then seeing her dressed as Hermione. So what I'm hoping we can actually do this summer is to have an event to celebrate Harry Potter's birthday enjoy.
Lauren Martino: That would be exciting.
David Payne: That sounds great.
Mary Ellen Icaza: For adults and children.
Lauren Martino: Because yeah, why should it be limited to children.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Exactly.
David Payne: Yeah, now having watched the event that you mentioned the wand making at Davis where we saw parents and children engage them on making really a program for all the family.
Lauren Martino: We have a circulation member who has this like full out like Hogwarts, Hufflepuff uniform it is amazing.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Well, hopefully that person will participate in the event this summer.
David Payne: Well, you’ve both obviously been involved in a good many programs over the years. Are there any programs that you've tried that just haven't worked out for you if so, why?
Laura Sarantis: When I first started working for the county as a library associate in Kensington I did a couple of programs that were I thought were useful. One was on Internet safety. One was on using the library's website to do academic research and nobody showed up.
Lauren Martino: That's always disappointing.
Laura Sarantis: And I worked a lot, I worked hard on those programs. And so it took me a while to kind of figure out why that was. I think it's much harder to get older teens to come into the library, because they're getting their driver's licenses. They're getting a taste of independence and they're in school all day. And you know I think they just are resistant to having adults structure all their time for them. So it's a lot of the programming we’re doing is geared now towards younger high school kids and middle school kids. If we can get the older ones that's great, but I'm just I haven't figured out the key yet to that.
David Payne: Can’t get pizza?
Laura Sarantis: That works, actually that does work. And SSL hours like if you can get them to come in and participate in something where they’re actually achieving something, doing something and you can give them SSL credits for it.
Lauren Martino: Mary Ellen, do you have anything that?
Mary Ellen Icaza: You know to what Laura is saying that you can plan the program and put everything together and be ready to go and then have low attendance. So I have that experience once a few summers ago, we planned a kickoff event for the summer read and learn program. We thought it will be great to have this one event for the whole entire county. But we didn't take into account is that June is a really, really busy month for families before school lets out. So we did not have as high an attendance as we had hoped for, for the event.
And I think it was because of just the timing of things you know it was in the beginning of June, its graduation season, a lot of sports teams are finishing out their seasons. So as you know in this county families are really booked. And I think you know that really affected the success of that program. It was still a fantastic performance, but I just wish that we had been able to reach a larger audience. So something like that will make me rethink offering a kickoff like that again around that time of year.
David Payne: Programs are very interesting. I always remember one of the most successful programs I've ever done in my whole career with another library system was on all things beekeeping.
Mary Ellen Icaza: Beekeeping.
David Payne: Yes.
Mary Ellen Icaza: That’s fascinating.
David Payne: Yes, it’s true. Dozens and dozens of people on a Tuesday evening, and I can’t remember the month, time of the year, but of all topics. And I did it really just as a one-off thing because I thought well, I’m going to try it. But it was one of the most successful programs I’ve ever done.
Lauren Martino: Wow, I remember listening to a podcast and forgive me I don't remember which one, but yeah, some other librarian saying it, yeah, it’s canning and cheese making really doing in my life. It’s amazing what you can turn into a program.
David Payne: Absolutely, yes.
Mary Ellen Icaza: I think you can turn almost anything into a program though I really do. I mean, I have been trying to encourage some of my staff who are really into coupons to do a couponing program, because who doesn't want to save money at the grocery store. And I think that's how we develop some of our best ideas for programs is just you have a personal interest and you think other people would have an interest in it too and you never know where it's going to go. For instance, like the bullet journaling that is very popular now. I am not a bullet journaler, but I think it will be wildly popular with people because a lot of people want to learn how to do it.
And I think we could form a little community of bullet journalers and new programs that way. And I know at Rockefeller Library they used to host happy crafting, which is a program I always wanted to go to but it never lined up with my schedule. But they would do different craft projects every week and that generated out of someone’s, you know, personal hobby she is really into craft making with paper products.
Lauren Martino: Other there little known secret about librarians, we are an incredibly diverse bunch of interests and backgrounds like there is nothing that we have not – ultimately all of us have looked at it some point or another.
David Payne: Absolutely and a glance at calendar of events will show you the diverse array of programming that does go on across the whole system.
Lauren Martino: Absolutely.
Laura Sarantis: And I think it's a mistake to think that you have to have a curriculum or a well-developed presentation to do a good program because we know we have a bullet journaler among the librarians. And she could just show up and just show you her bullet journal and show some websites that show how to do it. And you really don't need that much preparation – I mean, it helps to have some preparation, but you don't necessarily have to have you know a huge amount of expertise in some area to give a good library program. Some of them are just, you know, very spontaneous kind of things where you know like knitters will get together or embroiders or – so there is quite a few of those.
Lauren Martino: And it’s all about community I think.
Laura Sarantis: Yes.
Mary Ellen Icaza: I think people are looking to have that third space where they can meet and share with other people and you know that the knitting and crocheting that’s something else I wish I could get to. But I know, you know, it’s nice to be able to take your hobby and do it with other people.
David Payne: Well, libraries have come a long way, particularly in recent years. Where do you see library programming over the next 20 years or so?
Mary Ellen Icaza: I think libraries will still be a force we’re not going to go away. And I think our programs will persist and you know, as I mentioned before, the library programs being free, that is huge. I think it's hard to project though what will be the hot thing in 20 years, you know. So it's kind of hard for me to project what we’ll be doing in programming, because who would've ever thought we would have 3D printers in the library or we would be doing maker spaces in our libraries. I think we’ll still be doing our traditional programs like story times that help kids get ready to read and offering book discussions and things to support materials or collection. But I think we can be anything we want to be you know in relation to what our community is interested in.
Laura Sarantis: Yeah, I agree. And we're an evolving institution. Montgomery County Libraries calls itself a learning organization and that is – you know, on so many different levels not only are we learning how to be better librarians, how to better serve the community as we go on but we’re also about learning. We’re about learning in myriad different ways like Mary Ellen said earlier. I think we are going to continue to be really essential in terms of bridging the digital divide in terms of giving folks access to technology that they might not otherwise have access to.
We still get a lot of library visits from folks who don't have Internet at home, who don't have computers at home, who need a librarians help to apply for a job, to learn some marketable skills for jobs, to learn English in Gaithersburg. Gaithersburg and Silver Spring are two of the most diverse communities in the entire country. Those are our constituents and so language learning is huge in Gaithersburg, so conversation clubs and that sort of thing. I think we’re going to just continue evolving to serve those needs in the community, because that's what we do.
Lauren Martino: We love to ask our guests on Library Matters Mary Ellen, is there something you're reading now that you would like to share with us?
Mary Ellen Icaza: I was looking forward to this question.
Lauren Martino: Of course you were.
Mary Ellen Icaza: And I've actually gotten some good reading recommendations from your other guests on the podcast. And I'm reading Pachinko right now by Min Jin Lee. And it’s I'm still about halfway through it, but it's the most beautiful book. The writing is just so lovely. It was nominated as a National Book Award finalist and its adult fiction and it’s about an immigrant family, a Korean family living in Japan. And it's a saga that spans several generations, but it's really, really good storytelling. And I like when you can have a good thick book just to get lost in and that definitely fits the criteria for this one.
Lauren Martino: Laura, do you have something you’d like to share with us.
Laura Sarantis: I just started a huge ton David McCullough’s The Path between the Seas.
David Payne: That will keep you busy for a while.
Laura Sarantis: That will keep me busy for a while but it's so right up my alley because I’m a former history major who is now getting interested in STEM and engineering and that sort of thing. So I love books that talk about technology in a way that I can understand it. And so this was like probably the biggest engineering project ever in the universe up until maybe Hoover Dam later on. I don't know whether anything is bigger than this. I think it was – this was 30 years in the making so. And I’m just really interested in visiting Central America at some point so I'm starting to read that. Another one that I when I learned that I loved popular nonfiction that could explain science to me was when I read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. And I was tentative about going into that because I said I almost flunked high school biology. But that explained the science behind it to me in a way that I could understand. So hopefully that'll happen with McCullough and the engineering of the – yeah the canal.
David Payne: Well, Mary Ellen and Laura, thank you very much for joining us today and sharing with us your program insights and some of the very exciting programming we can look forward to in the future months at MCPL. Keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on the Apple podcast at Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast. Also, please review and write to us on Apple podcast. We love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today. See you next time.
David Payne: Welcome to Library Matters with your host David Payne.
Julie Dina: And Julie Dina.
David Payne: And today we're going retro, and looking at the record player, polaroid camera, rotary phone, and all radios, in other words, retro technology. And I'm very pleased to have two of MCPL’s most avid retro tech collectors with us today, welcome Eric Carzon, the manager of the Twinbrook Library.
Eric Carzon: Hi everybody.
David Payne: And Bill Carey, from our Information Technology Department. Welcome Bill.
Bill Carey: Okay, thank you.
David Payne: So, Eric and Bill welcome, and I can see from the props that you bought in today you've got some serious retro technology which we're looking forward to hearing all about. Well, sort of tell us both a bit about yourselves, and how would you describe retro technology, and what got you interested in the field? Let’s start with you Eric.
Eric Carzon: Alrighty, thank you. So, aside from managing the Twinbrook branch, I’m a lifelong Maryland native, I have two children, married, and I’m an amateur singer, songwriter. To me I define retro technology in a couple of different ways.
I think one way to define it, and look at it is that it's a piece of older technology that comes back into use, or fashion after an absence, bellbottom jeans, vinyl record players which we’ll talk a lot about. The other thing that I would say is that retro technology can sometimes be new technology that's sort of presented with the skin of an older technology.
So, it might be for instance sort of the old fashioned -- old fashioned, it’s kind of hard to call old fashioned. But the cell phones from the original first generation Nokia, which had sort of bigger buttons and were very simple, they’re sort making comeback now. And so they put the new guts into the old phone. So I think that's another way to implement retro technology.
It sounded kind of funny to me, I never thought I would wear polyester, but Under Armor if you break it down and think about it is basically plastic clothing like from the 70s, when everybody wore nylon. So, there's an example of retro in my opinion where they've sort of put a new spin on an old idea. And so why is retro tech interesting to me? Well, I come from the third generation of telephone people.
My dad was a phone lineman, my grandfather worked as a lineman and various other jobs in management in the C&P Telephone Company. So, I come from a family of tinkerers, basically. They were always tinkering with something, so I’ve got all their old tools and just sort of picked up that habit of tinkering with old stuff, and I just love to play with old junk.
And in fact I used some of their old bolts and screws that they gave me today to make a repair on something this morning in my house, so it comes in handy too.
David Payne: That's great, thank you. So Bill, are you a tinkerer as well?
Bill Carey: I certainly am. I’m a 50 year bass player musician, so I deal with vintage guitars, vintage bases and vintage tube amplifiers too, as part of my retro tech exposure, and I like old tube radios, the ones with vacuum tubes are the ones of interest to me, because you can actually play with the electronics and learn about the radio, how it works, and the same thing with the amplifiers I have.
You can actually tailor the sound of it by modifying components inside.
David Payne: So, do you actively still collect the old radios?
Bill Carey: When I can find them I do, they're getting to be hard to find now, because there's so many people that value them, you just can't come across one. I used to see them in thrift stores, garage sales all the time, and picking up occasionally, but I just don't see them anymore. Now you can find them online but you're going to pay the premium price for those online.
But still, I have about a half dozen I keep in my office here just for visual fun, and I work on them on the side occasionally get'em to work. This one, I brought one from 1941, just to see how everything is all -- most of it is all wooden materials and early plastic, but just wanted to show you the technology of vacuum tube, that’s what displayed in these things.
Even though this one doesn't have a power cord yet, because it still needs to be rebuilt, but most of them don't work that I buy, and I find that's better because I can get them for less money then.
David Payne: And you fix them up yourself.
Bill Carey: Sure.
Julie Dina: So, hopefully, before the show is over between Bill playing the guitar, and Eric the armature singer, we can get a commitment from the two of you.
Eric Carzon: We’re not in a gig here.
Julie Dina: We can have a gig.
Eric Carzon: Why not?
David Payne: Yeah, we did the Christmas party, why not.
Bill Carey: We did the Christmas -- right, a couple of years ago.
Julie Dina: We’ve got a contract. I’m privileged to be with the Outreach Team and, we’re currently getting excited and prepared for a vinyl day for our listeners and those who have no idea what Vinyl Day is, can you guys tell us what Vinyl Day is all about, when this is going to be, where, and who should attend.
Eric Carzon: All right, great. I’ll tackle that. I’m on the committee, so I’m helping to plan it, and we’re really looking forward to it we think it should be fun as the first time that MCPL is doing this. So, the event is called Just for the Record, A Vinyl Record Day. And it's going to be held at the Silver Spring Library on April 21st, and it's going to be from 11 o'clock in the morning, through 4PM in the afternoon.
It’s fun for all ages, everybody is welcome, all the events are free. And let me give you a few samples of things that are going to be going on during the event. We're going to have several panel discussions. We've got some experts who will talk about live music that drove the golden era of record making, we’ll have people that talk about record collecting.
We're going to have a group that's talking about the recording industry in Eritrea, in Eastern Africa, and we're going to have some DJ performances. We'll also have an opportunity for music and dance, a little karaoke. We're going to be doing really cool crafts where the kids get to build crafts out of old records, so that's going to be really nifty.
Our keynote speaker is John Corbett, he’s an author he wrote the b ook Vinyl Freak, Love Letters to A Dying Medium. So, he is a music expert and a long time DJ, and collector and he's going to be rounding the afternoon for us. We’ll also have music/record display rooms throughout the library, and we’re actually asking for folks to volunteer to demonstrate those.
So we're hoping we might get a blues room, or a gospel room, or jazz room, that kind of thing. So, the website folks who are interested in displaying their music in one of these music rooms is www.folmc.org/vinyl-day. And where did the Vinyl Day idea come from? April 21st is actually National Record Store Day, and that's been around more than a decade.
It's a day to celebrate music and what record stores bring. And so we combine that with --. In August there's an actual Vinyl Day that is also about a decade old and commemorates the patenting of the recording technology, the record.
So, we sort of morphed the concepts together and said, “Well, let's have a day that celebrates the vinyl record, and we’ll actually in honor of Record Store Day there will actually be a sale during record day at the library, so one of the rooms will actually, you can actually buy records and books from the Friends of the Library, Montgomery County book sale, they are one of the sponsors.
In fact the event is a co-sponsorship, it is co-sponsored Montgomery County Public Libraries, the Friends of the Library Montgomery County, Levine Music, and Open Sky Jazz are the co-sponsors of the program, and it's going to be a really good time.
Julie Dina: So it sounds like we have a variety.
Eric Carzon: Oh yeah, it is going to be a lot of fun.
Bill Carey: So the Eritrean recording industry is being done on vinyl, is that what they're doing, are they’re doing--
Eric Carzon: Well, they are going to describe like the history of it, so I’m sure that they use a mix of technologies today just like the American recording industry.
Bill Carey: They want to do it in digital and vinyl on the side or something because I still have all my vinyl records from the 60s and 70s. I store them in my basement, thought they’d worthless get around -- I thought I was going to get around the donating and were throwing them out, and now they're valuable again.
David Payne: Now you're glad you didn't.
Bill Carey: Now records I bought for 2.50 or $3 are now $30, so it’s amazing. And if you kept in good shape, they sound good and they still work, and in my younger days in high school I was on some local release recordings, that we did a local record in DC and the structure of making a record back in the 70s was you had to record it first in a recording studio, and then send it off to have it mixed down, and then mastered.
It was quite a bit of money, and then you'd have to pressed into vinyl records, the key thing back then was the quality of the vinyl affect, the quality of the sound. So, if you had virgin vinyl your record sounded better than if you had recycled vinyl, and that was a big issue back then when you had a company do records because they tried to cut costs, use recycled vinyl, and you’d have all these pops on your record.
People get upset. Well, that's what you had to pay extra sometimes, you get to specify, “I want virgin vinyl used for my record pressing." You got a better sounding record as a result. And hopefully that's they’re still doing today, at $30 a pop for an album, because you can hear a very big difference, especially when you’re comparing it to a CD.
The background noise is the downfall of vinyl record, but that’s how you also get the analog sound so it's a trade off.
David Payne: But let me ask you, you both. We talked about the revival of vinyl, and record players and so on. Why do you think that there has been this revival of vinyl record players, and retro the retro tech in general? What's the appeal, why has it come back?
Eric Carzon: I’ll start I think a couple different factors. I think one is definitely just generational. Now I’m gentleman of a certain age, and I you know now I can relive that experience. For me vinyl records were right in my childhood, and so I can go back to specific moments and say, “I’m seven years old, and my mom's playing Gordon Lightfoot, and were hanging out in the house, and it's a happy time.
Because of the way that the vinyl records are that is an experience. So, it's you know it's a time delimited experience of 20 minutes per side, and each side sort of goes with the other side, and you sort of experience it in this linear fashion which is a lot different than what you can do with Mp3 and mix. A lot of albums on CDs seem like just a collection of songs, don’t get me wrong, some vinyl was just a collection of songs too.
But, the medium lent itself and the fashion at the time, Jesus Christ Superstar, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, Marvin Gaye, What's Going On. These records were tight, they were integrated, and that's an experience--
Bill Carey: Sergeant Peppers for instance.
Eric Carzon: Yeah, exactly.
Bill Carey: That order made a difference.
David Payne: So basically it's also they cover the self, which is in many ways iconic.
Eric Carzon: Yeah, so I think there is this sort of nostalgic element, and generationally people are sort of thirsting to experience that again. Kids grow up, I got more free time, I'm ready go back into the record store and experience that maybe have a little more cash, I’m not broke like I was when I was 22, or whatever. So I think there's some generational, there's an economics.
I think for newer generations I think as an experience it's kind of like a luxury experience, and I do lots of stuff with digital music, So I’m very happy mixing and making -- I’ve got mixes that last for 26 hours, and that's great to be able to do that and that is an experience too, but I can see the appeal of someone younger who's only experienced CD and electronic music going, "Wait a minute, what's that?
Oh, I like that scratching sound, I like that analog sound, the kind of warm --" Because digital kind of cold, and when it goes bad it's kind of very punchy, where as in analog technology, if it's slightly degraded or bad, it doesn’t spoil the whole experience. You still experience something, in fact it can sort of add to the experience.
It's a totally different kind of package for somebody, and it's almost like anything, wine tasting, clothes or whatever. Anybody of any age could go, "Hmm, let me try that, what's that all about?" And I think some people have, and they've gone, "Wow, this is a wonderful way to experience this album." Some of them they might be exploring --
Actually, one of my notes for this is we are kind of in this age of we've done so much in the 20 and the 21st century that we're retreading. If you think about it like, how many Batman franchises have there been now? I've lost track.
Bill Carey: Nostalgia.
Eric Carzon: Modern artists are going back and they are recreating kind of “classics,” so, experiencing a classic as it was intended in its original form is something you can do with vinyl, and I can see somebody from any age, but especially from the new age going, "I want to experience this album, this classic album that I keep hearing about. Frank Sinatra, Tony Benin, whatever.
I want to experience this as it was experienced by the people who created it at the time it was created, just to have that experience, and see what's it’s all about. And then I want to put a modern spin on it." And that sort of spiders into, "Oh, let me take Lady Gaga's album, she's doing a duet with Frank Sinatra or whatever, so let's have her --
Let's do it the modern technical way, so it can be marketed and sold, and blah-blah-blah, but let's see what it sounds like on vinyl too." The other thing about vinyl at least is you get this huge 12 inch package, you can do all sort of different things with the art work, it's different. The written words are different. If you have a booklet kind of thing in there is actually readable. You don’t need a magnifying glass.
Artistically it makes a huge difference. Some of the books we have in our collections sort of go into that, like, "Hey, here's the classic album covers, and here's the first album cover where all the people on it were naked, and that was like a big thing at the time, it made everybody crazy." So, there's all sort of special things you can do with art work that CDR work in.
Basically, it just let's you recognize it. "Oh, that’s CD, I kind of recognize that CD." But, you're not going to hang it on your wall, or--
David Payne: You don’t buy a CD because of the cover.
Eric Carzon: Right.
Bill Carey: That's why CDs lost out on a lot, because the surface area was small, it couldn’t grab your attention as easily, and that's nothing to consider as when you're going to buy a classic album in vinyl, it was originally recorded in analogue equipment. So this is going to sound different than even a modern album recreated by the same band.
If you back and listen to an original Beatle's album even hearing it on CD, or you heard parts that you've never heard before, because now you can hear all the bass notes, and everything perfectly clear. But if you replay it on original vinyl record that is exactly how it was intended to be heard, or how it was heard when it was first released, so there's value in that, just like you said.
That's part of an experience where you go through the vinyl record, and you want to put it on a turn table, and then run through a tube amplifier, I’ve an old Dynaco tube stereo, you then get a full analogue experience, because tubes tend to emphasize the even harmonics of the harmonic series, they sound sweeter than the cold harsh electronics of CDs and solid-state amplifiers.
Solid-state amps are easier, and less maintenance, it’s a lot less headache, but a tube amp, or whatever has a good sound quality of sound. The original Woodstock, all the sound system was run on tubes. And if you go listen to that movie or go see it that's what you are hearing. You're hearing Macintosh amplifiers which is the primary amp ever used in stereo systems, they use that for Woodstock in '69.
So, there's a lot to be said for that, resurgence of that technology because of the quality of sound you don’t get in modern technology.
David Payne: Interesting.
Eric Carzon: Yeah. It's almost like a luxury product, it's like you drink the $8 bottle of wine, here it is, with Mac and cheese, if you want to heighten the experience every once in a while, or once in a couple of months. You're like, "You know what, in Deloitte a bottle of wine is fine, but I want the $25 bottle of wine tonight. It's special night." Or "I'm feeling like I want to indulge."
Bill Carey: With a $75 bottle.
Eric Carzon: Yeah, so it's like an experience. I would say the other reason I think vinyl records and other retro track is coming back, but it's kind of initiating point to me about vinyl records, because as a library staff member it's also sort of the same thing with paper and books. It's aside from the experience being different we have sort of discovered a sort of dirty little secret of CDs.
It's now that CDs have been around for two decades or more we started to realize that they don’t hold up. Just like cassette tapes, and I love cassette tapes. But the unfortunate fact of cassette tapes is they have a life spam, and it's a limited one. And so CDs as well people have discovered like, "Oh, if I play this CD regularly it will die after 20 years. Like just die and -- once it's dead it's useless."
So, vinyl is a lot like paper, in that it can get useless if you don’t take care of it, or if you abuse it. But if you take care of it we could be playing that vinyl record 300 years from now, just like we can go into a special library and find the Magna Carta from 1,200 years ago, or whatever, and that has its value.
David Payne: Yeah. And even with the scratch or too you can still play a record, and in some way that’s the whole feel of the record, that scratch.
Bill Carey: It is true. And if you get a scratch on the top of a CD you can kill the whole CD.
Eric Carzon: Exactly.
Bill Carey: Exactly, it can't quite handle it.
Eric Carzon: One of the reasons they used a record for the Voyager probe, so the Voyager is out there, but after 40 years, and what does it have on it? It's got a copper record on it with a makeshift record player, because that is a durable--
Bill Carey: That's right. They did include a record player where they think they wouldn’t have to depend on the aliens to invent something to play it.
David Payne: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Febe Huezo: Looking for guitar lessons for your child? MCPL has you covered. With artists work you can learn to play a new instrument, take voice lessons or try something special like jazz piano lessons. Sign up today it's free with your library card. For more information about artist work check out the link on this episode show notes.
David Payne: Now back to our program.
Julie Dina: So here we are in 2018 talking about vinyl records, retro tech devices, and I can see the excitement between Eric and Bill. I can see the excitement in you guys. Is there any particular favorite device that actually made a comeback that you guys were like, "Oh my god, I’m so glad this is here."
Bill Carey: I’m actually shocked that vinyl records came back, because I thought it was going to be too expensive, too -- But it's actually a boon for the music industry, if you think about it. Vinyl records couldn't be copied easily, even though you could make tapes of them and cassettes, they didn’t quite sound the same.
And when CDs came out that was like the big loss for the record industry. They thought, "You will make all this money on CDs." They were cheaper to make, they could put them out, but the fact that it's digital and all of a sudden with the internet and people are having more powerful PCs you can download these digital files, all the music is available and can be copied and pirated that hurt the music industry.
The recording industry it's a cut through business but also it's kind of interesting. Seeing vinyl records come back, well that's one royalty the record company or the artist is sure to get because you are buying that record. Now, somebody can buy used album but then again it's degraded, somebody else hasn't taken care of it.
You want to buy the new record album to sound the best it's kind of interesting to see all that work. But, whether it's going to hang on or not I don't know. But, the record industry loves having vinyl coming back at least to a small degree.
Eric Carzon: Now, back to your question my couple of favorite retro texts is the human voice in my opinion is the retro tech I'm most excited about, I am so happy that acapella music has come back into vogue and made such a big splash with Pitch Perfect, and my kids love that movie.
Julie Dina: I love that movie.
Eric Carzon: I loved it in college, and I know it never really went away, but for a while it was like not popular. You had to be a nerd or geek or just like in a low level to be appreciated. So I’m glad it sort of made this resurgence of, "Hey, you don’t need all these high tech stuff to make music. You can have a bunch of people together, and they can make something that's really exciting."
That to me is an exciting retro tech, and I think acoustical instruments to me is retro tech, and there's a plethora of them, sort of much more popular, and much more used now than I think they were in let's say the '70s, and '80s. Ukulele for instance in particular was just sort of a little boutique instrument, then it sort of had some heyday in the 60s and 70s, went away for while, I think now it's coming back in a big fashion. I think that’s pretty--
David Payne: Quite a revival.
Bill Carey: Martin Guitar said it's their fourth ukulele revival actually. Ukulele first came out and strong in the early 1900s, in the '20s then they went away. In the 1920s and '30s you see ukulele parts in all the sheet music. And it resurged a little bit in the '50s it went away in the 60s, now it's coming back really strong
David Payne: Now it's coming back again.
Bill Carey: It's just amazing how things go around. But nothing is going to beat the human voice, you're right. That’s why this shows like The Voice, and when you hear a good singer, there's something compelling about that. If somebody sings like themselves in their own voice, and they are a good singer, well you've never heard that before, if you really think about it.
You've never heard that person sing ever before from anyone else, even though it may be similar it's not exactly them, and that’s still compelling.
David Payne: Well we've talked about things that have made a comeback. Let's turn the question on its head, and if I can ask you, can you think of examples of person, older technology of any kind that hasn’t made a comeback that you would like to see reappear. Let me start with you Bill.
Bill Carey: Well, that’s a tough one. I do like tube technology, tube circuitry, I think it's interesting, although it is expensive, it is still out there. I find it fun to work on, of course no cut music, legitimately going to make a tube radio. It costs so much, and you can have a better radio on your cell phone, or you get on a tube.
But the fact that you can manipulate the electronics and actually tune the actual sound of the instrument, or the radio, AM radio is not a good example, but for music instrument amplifiers the tubes make a real big difference, and that's why they do make boutique amplifiers for guitars that are two or three thousand dollars, even more, going up from there, depending on where your maker is.
That's kind of interesting, although I don’t see that’s coming as wide spread for everybody. It's kind of interesting. Again, Eric and I were talking about old day AT & T phones, the old bell system phones. And I still hear some from his father working on the industry. Those phones are made the last -- they build the last a couple of centuries, they'll never wear out.
I have a couple that still work. They are hooked up to my house. I’m an early adopter of FIOS, but my dial phones still works on the FIOS line. They give you a battery pack to make sure your old phone works, The phone company was amazing. They said, "This is the battery to operate the bells on your telephone." Because I told them, "I've got these dial phones., are they going to work?"
They said, "They sure will, unless you lose power." And sure enough they do. When you use it like -- I've got a neighbor who's 99 years old, he still calls me on the old dial phone. That’s the old house phone, he doesn’t know my cell number that well. That’s how he reach out. Of course all the rest of the calls are crank calls, but that's life in 2018, so, unfortunately.
That’s where I like the old phone. I'm thinking, it's neat, but it sure doesn’t have quite convenience of a cell phone, but it still it has heft, it has weight.
David Payne: It has the quality.
Bill Carey: Yeah, the quality and that weight, and the idea of you -- you hold that phone, and that’s also fun to freak out on nine year old neighborhood kids, and they want to call home, "Here, try this." "How do I work that?"
Eric Carzon: I'm totally with bill on tube technology. I describe it as the Patsy Cline sound. There is just sort of warmness to the early era that it is really a special sound, and I love technologies that will replicate that, and then I would love to do manual crank technology. A lot more of that so that when all the lights go out we'll be able to see something. And I was watching this Grade-B Sci-Fi/Horror Flick.
One of the interesting things about it, I don’t even remember its name. But one of the interesting things about it was, all the computers in the super high-tech space ship that flew from earth, to like Alpha Centauri, or someplace really far all had little cranks on them, because they anticipated like, "Oh my gosh, if all the power runs out in the space ship we need to be able to like fire up the computers so we can figure out what quadrants of the universe we're in.
Julie Dina: Isn't that great?
Eric Carzon: Yeah, So the dude benched out, and he cranks it up. And all the little lights on the computer come on and I'm like, "Oh my God, that's so awesome." I think that will be a really cool retro. We have those little prank powered radios, with like tiny little LED lights. It'd be fascinating if that technology made it just a little bit further. You could like bicycle up your whole house and run it for an hour or something.
Bill Carey: Going further back, I have an old Victor talking machine, a wind up record player from 1910. I inherited it from my great aunt, and it still works, and it's -- you literally crank it up and it plays the '78 album. And I have albums from Enrico Caruso, and all kinds of different artists, from the early parts of 20th century, but I always wonder how far that technology could have taken had they … it's totally mechanical.
There is nothing electronic on it, it's not operating any battery or charging. It is totally running on a main spring, and resonance going this system to produce the music. It's like a mica diaphragm, it works. It sounds great.
Julie Dina: So, while I have both of you here, and since you're the experts, I haven’t heard you mention the VCR, and I've been praying and hoping that that will come back. You want to know why?
Bill Carey: Why?
Julie Dina: I have tones of VHS tapes that I've kept hoping that this day would come. So please, tell me, do you know, do you have any idea if the VCR will be making a comeback, at least for my sake?
David Payne: For me as well. Tell me before I start converting all my VRSs to DVDs too.
Julie Dina: And I think for Mark, our producer too.
Bill Carey: All I would say is scour the yard sales, buy free used ones because I knew a guy who could fix them, but I don’t anybody now who can really get into them. They're quite complex inside, but you can have your VCR, your tapes converted to digital visual stuff if you have it linked up to the right system, it's just the quality is not going upward what you're going to see on a modern digital camera, because it was done on VHS.
It's not that the old line system. But you can still play the tapes. I have a bunch of tapes of my children being on VHS, and the same situation. When the player dies, there it goes. Isn’t that the problem with all these archival mediums? If you don’t have the device to play it, it is like five and quarter floppy disk.
Some law firms had all their stuff on five and quarter disk, and I remember a guy who got a job converting all their files, and he was the only guy in this company you could find that had a five and a quarter disk drive, he charged him $500 for the disk drive, because it was unavailable anywhere else, they needed it to hook up to a computer to convert all their files over to modern technology.
VHS is kind of the same thing. Whether that’s -- or Sony Betamax. Betamax is actually a better system, but they lost out in the market place because they were too proprietary, they didn’t share it. VHS was cheaper, and beat them down in popularity. Because they were less expensive, just like Windows and Macintosh, same thing.
Eric Carzon: I don’t think video tape will same comeback that vinyl has, because there's nothing special about the video tape medium. It's not -- All that stuff that we described about the experience of a vinyl record, I don’t think you can say that for tape, it's just a medium, and the disk medium is superior, and even the disk medium is going to be overtaken by digital just as soon as possible, It's already starting to happen.
I think you should convert it as soon as possible, like if it's of value to you like a personal thing like a wedding or whatever. You need to get that converted as soon as possible. There's plenty of stores now that we'll do it. You can find them on Rockville Pike, and Damascus, and other places, they exist if you Google video editing, or whatever, you'll find it.
You can probably find it on the internet as well, but there're services that will take your old 16 millimeter, or your VHS, or whatever, and now converted it down to digital, that's expensive. You probably only want to do it for something that has a personal meaning. If you just want your copy of ET to live, just buy--
Bill Carey: Of course. [inaudible] [0:30:46] like that, but-
Eric Carzon: Finding a library or whatever. We have of the DVDs in the library, but I would definitely convert your stuff. And you can do it yourself too. There's still stuff on Amazon, the best buy where you buy the little plugs and software, and you can just download from whatever device you have, whatever player, and basically it'll -- you can buy whatever converter to take output of that, plug it into your USB drive, download it on to some little piece of software.
And basically once you get it in the digital format then you're able to keep archiving it or copying it or switching it from format to format. Get it into digital format before it's too late.
Bill Carey: Somebody on YouTube can show you how to do it too, I'm sure.
Julie Dina: So, what you're both trying to tell me is no revival there?
Bill Carey: Not that I can see happening, but I was shocked about vinyl records, so what do I know.
David Payne: And tape is a medium that will die. I converted my audio tapes too late, so some of my conversions are very wobbly, because metallic tape does not last, it will die. Even if you don’t play it it will die. After 20 or so years the magnetic properties of the tapes start to wear away, and you lose it. So, you definitely want to convert it if you care about it, because otherwise it will be gone.
Bill Carey: VHS tapes do have very good audio though, because it's an equivalent of like 30 inches per second. I compare it to regular wheel to wheel tape recorder, you'll get much better fidelity. If you had a concert or something on VHS, even though the image may not be that great, the audio should be very good, and a lot of them are recorded in stereo.
So, depending on the quality of the recording, the audio can last and be very impressive when you transfer, so that’s one thing to think about.
Julie Dina: That’s good to know. Thanks guys.
Eric Carzon: One more thing about that. The poor man's way to do it, like if you don’t want to bother with all that play it in whatever medium you have. So if you still have the working VCR player...
Bill Carey: And a TV that can play it.
Eric Carzon: Plug it into VCR, take your cell phone, you record it with video, and at least you'll have it. If nothing else maybe do that with your wedding video before you send it off to the photo editor, just in case they stick it in the machine and it gets eaten.
Bill Carey: Right, Record it. It's okay if it's an old CRT television that can play that VHS tape in the right format, because a new TV you're going to see the quality difference pretty -- If you can't even hook it up that’s one thing. I have new television I couldn’t connect any of my old VHS players to it, because the plugs we're different, they're all HTMI now, that I don’t have the old RCA connectors.
You might need an older television to go along with your VHS player, if you're going to play those tapes just seeing--
Eric Carzon: That’s what make adaptors for. You might have to plug like 15 cables to [inaudible] [0:33:27] each other
Julie Dina: Just to get it to work.
Eric Carzon: You can get it from those RCA type video outputs, to HDMI, it's possible. But you might need like two or three little things in between.
Bill Carey: I don’t know if I trust that, half way through they got them unplugged.
David Payne: Well, now that we're feeling totally nostalgic we typically close each episode by asking the guests what you're reading now. So--
Julie Dina: Or in their case what they're listening to.
David Payne: What they're listening to, yeah. So, let's start with Eric.
Eric Carzon: All right, a couple of things that I'm reading now. One is this book I got that the system doesn't quite own yet, but we're going to order it. It's called, Vinyl the Art of Making Records, by Mike Evans. And it's a great little piece because it talks about the albums, and it also talks about how they're made. It's got a lot of cool pictures about showing like how a vinyl record is pressed.
I'm also still reading through John Corbett's Vinyl Freak. I've read like about a third of it, and that's a pretty book, and the system owns that one.
David Payne: Bill?
Bill Carey: I'm not reading tentacle right now, I'm reading a book on Roosevelt's, from the PBS special. I found it in the book sale, and Cars, Cars, Cars. I don’t remember the author, but the history of automobiles from -- it was written in 1967, it's really interesting because it's 50 years ago, of the earlier details was quite much more extensive than anything found today. Because they really cover -- This guy covers the '18s and '20s like no other book I've ever seen, so it's really interesting that way.
David Payne: Great. Thank you both very much.
Eric Carzon: Thank you.
Bill Carey: Great.
Julie Dina: Once again I'd like to thank Bill and Eric for joining us today. Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twetter, Facebook, Instagram, and Pintrest. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on the Apple podcast app, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcast. Also, please review and rate us on Apple podcast, we'll love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today, and see you next time.
David Payne: Are you ready okay so we brought a vinyl record player with us, courtesy of friends of the library and my George Benson, Give Me the Night Album will give you a little taste of it, from the real vinyl.
[0:36:21] [Audio Ends]
Lauren Martino: Welcome to Library Matters. This is your host Lauren Martino. And I'm here with my co-host.
Julie Dina: Julie Dina.
Lauren Martino: And today we are talking about a 1000 Books Before Kindergarten, this is a really exciting new program that we're doing here at MCPL. I'm here with Christine Freeman, who is our Early Literacy and Children's Services manager and also manages the Noyes Library for Young Children.
Christine Freeman: Hey Lauren.
Lauren Martino: And we also have Olivia Darrell, who is our selector for children's fiction.
Glad to have you Olivia.
Olivia Darrell: Thanks Lauren.
Lauren Martino: So tell us a little bit, Christine, about how you got interested in early literacy and children's fiction?
Christine Freeman: Okay. Well, originally when I started as a librarian I was an adult reference librarian, which was interesting. But I realized that children are a lot more fun than adults.
Lauren Martino: I'm right there with you. I got you on that.
Christine Freeman: And once I started doing story times I was hooked, and there was no going back. So I'm a children's person from here forward.
Lauren Martino: You're a children's convert.
Christine Freeman: Yes, a children's convert.
Lauren Martino: Can you tell us a little bit about this new program, what's 1000 Books Before Kindergarten all about?
Christine Freeman: So 1000 Books Before Kindergarten is a nationwide program. The sole purpose of the program is to promote reading to newborns, infants, and toddlers, and to encourage parent and child bonding through reading. And that's what the library is all about. We want to create family engagement opportunities for parents, and that's what this program will do.
Julie Dina: Olivia, can you tell us exactly when the kickoff is for this program?
Olivia Darrell: Sure. Families can begin signing up for 1000 Books Before Kindergarten at any of our MCPL branches on Saturday, March 24th.
Lauren Martino: So, Olivia, I hear you get to buy children's books all day. That sounds like an amazing job. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Olivia Darrell: It is an amazing job. I started out as a children's librarian in the branches which I loved. And I got to do story time. But now I get to sit in an office and buy books for kids. And I get to read reviews and find the best ones and make sure that we're spending the county's money responsibly.
Lauren Martino: So you get to immerse yourself in like Horn Book all day and …
Olivia Darrell: Yeah, Horn Books, School Library Journal, all of those.
Lauren Martino: Do you have any good children's book podcasts to recommend? Do you listen to any of those or is that not your thing?
Olivia Darrell: I don't. I read a lot of the blogs, but I don't get into many of the - I do listen to podcasts but not about children's literature.
Julie Dina: Christine, I really like the sound of this whole program that we're all talking about. And it really is an innovative way to get children geared toward reading before they actually begin kindergarten. Could you tell us whose idea this was or who actually started it?
Christine Freeman: So this program is a nationwide program. It was originally started in Las Vegas, Nevada through a private charitable donation. It currently has other sponsors. Basically, like I said, their whole goal is just to get parents and kids reading. And across the country people do various formats for the program. Some use logs, some use online programs to log, so it's different across the country.
Lauren Martino: Who can participate in this program? I've got a four-year-old, and you were talking about a 1,000 books. And she's four. Is this like really something you have to start at age - at birth or can any kid participate?
Olivia Darrell: Any child can participate starting at birth, like you said, but certainly your four-year-old can participate as well. Anyone who hasn't yet begun kindergarten can participate in this program.
Christine Freeman: And we have some really easy ways to help your child complete. We have something called Early Literacy Moments. And what that means is any time you have an early literacy moment, such as you're singing the ABCs, or you're looking at shapes when you're taking a walk or if you are singing a song or fingerplay, each one of those counts as a book. So those add up really quickly if you think about one day spent with your child, those early literacy moments really add up and that will help you complete summer reading a 1,000 Books Before Kindergarten.
Julie Dina: Well, I'm pretty sure a lot of parents want to know what options do they actually have for recording their children's progress. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Christine Freeman: It's going to be really easy. All of our branches will be ready and waiting when parents want to go to sign up their children. You can go to any information desk and our staff will be happy and excited to sign your children up using Beanstack, and they will give them a paper log. The paper log is so simple, every time a child has a book read to them they can color in a little shell, which you know they're going to love. When they finish coloring a hundred shells they take it back to the library and they get something fun.
Julie Dina: Christine, you just mentioned Beanstack, can you, especially for those who are not aware of what that is, can you tell us exactly what that means?
Christine Freeman: Sure, Julie. Beanstack is an online portal. It is super easy to use. You can create an account and then sign up for all of our reading programs. If you are a parent it's really easy because you can make one user account and then have all your readers on your account, so that means only one login and one password. And if you need help signing up for an account you can go to any of our information staff and they'll be happy to assist you with that. The best thing about Beanstack is it gives you personalized reading lists and suggestions for books, it is fantastic. They will send you emails of suggestions, and if you choose you can go to the library and ask the librarian to get them for you.
Lauren Martino: You can also do the reading challenge that way, can't you, if you're an adult and feel so inclined?
Christine Freeman: Yes, any of our reading programs that we have, which include summer reading for little ones, elementary and teens, and then a reading challenge for adults as well, and a thousand books.
Lauren Martino: So, I hear you can win prizes doing this for your children. How does that work?
Olivia Darrell: Of course we have prizes. Every time you read a hundred books and bring in your finished log the child will get a sticker, and then after reading 500 books they'll get a magnet frame. And after completing a thousand they'll get a new backpack to load up with even more books. And just imagine how impressed your child's kindergarten teacher will be when they can tell them that they have already read 1,000 books.
Christine Freeman: And what you want to say is this is a great opportunity to build self-esteem with your children. Every time they complete a log and you celebrate that that encourages them to keep on reading. And that's how we're going to build lifelong reading for our young children.
Lauren Martino: And the librarians will be celebrating that too, right?
Christine Freeman: The librarians will be celebrating that too. I can tell you I think staff will be really excited when the kids come in with their smiling faces and their logs all filled out, and they will be excited and happy to celebrate with them.
Lauren Martino: We are all about celebrating their reading.
Julie Dina: I would like to go back to Beanstack though. So for parents who say, "I signed up for a summer read and learn last summer, do I have to create another account in Beanstack?" What exactly do we tell them?
Olivia Darrell: No, they do not have to create another account. They just simply sign-in to their established account with Beanstack, click on Register for this Program under 1,000 Books Before Kindergarten, and they will earn their first badge and get started reading.
Lauren Martino: So what if they've forgotten their password?
Christine Freeman: If they've forgotten their password they can go to the information desk and ask any of our staff and they will be happy to assist them.
Julie Dina: That's really great. Because it seems like it always boils down to going to our friendly librarians at the desk.
Olivia Darrell: Absolutely.
Christine Freeman: And it's going to be easy, it's going to be fun. The kids are going to love it. And don't forget that children, of course they want you to read the book over and over and over. And every time you read it, it counts. So if you ready that same book 20 times, that's 20 shells your child gets to color in.
Lauren Martino: So if I read - okay, we have this big huge, like little golden collection of like every Star Wars enshrined in picture book - in a little golden picture book. So every time I read an episode does it count or do I have to read the entire, like, seven-book omnibus?
Christine Freeman: I think we're going to leave that up to the parents to decide. I think that's flexible. And if they're reading to their children that's what we're looking for.
Lauren Martino: Okay, so flexible and fun, and whatever you want to make of it.
Christine Freeman: Uh-huh.
Julie Dina: So we're hearing so much about reading a 1000 books before kindergarten. What exactly is this program supposed to accomplish?
Christine Freeman: We know that children who are read to on a regular basis have larger vocabularies and it makes them more ready for kindergarten, right. They learn patience, they sit while they're read to. And also, like I said earlier, it's just a form of family engagement that we really want to encourage.
Lauren Martino: So all of this seems geared around introducing five-year-olds and younger to reading. Can you tell us a little bit about why it's so important to read to five-year-olds and younger? I mean, when exactly do you start reading to children?
Olivia Darrell: The day they're born you can start reading to them. There are so many reasons that it's important to be reading to young children. We want to associate reading with positive experiences. They will be able to develop language and literacy skills. They'll be able to recognize reading rules and patterns such as text going from left to right and top to bottom. And ultimately, we want kids to be prepared to learn to read when they enter kindergarten, which will lead to greater success in school.
Christine Freeman: And we know that babies love to hear the sound of their parents or caregiver's voice. So every time they're read to it's comforting to them. And as they grow older they will associate words with pictures and sounds, and that's how we create readers.
Olivia Darrell: Christine mentioned vocabulary. When a child is learning to read once they're in elementary school they can't read a word unless they've heard a word before. So, even those picture books that have really big vocabulary words are great for young children because we want them to be exposed to as many words as possible.
Christine Freeman: And you get words in picture books that you don't get, like, walking on the street.
Olivia Darrell: Absolutely, yes.
Lauren Martino: They do.
Christine Freeman: This morning I did story time and we had trestles.
Lauren Martino: Trestles? Oh, let me guess, Freight Train.
Olivia Darrell: Yes.
Christine Freeman: I told them that's our vocabulary word for the day, and we defined what a trestle was.
Julie Dina: Well, we do know what the word for this show is, a 1000. And I can tell you, especially since I'm with the outreach department, we're all excited. We've been promoting this program everywhere we go. However, I do get a lot of people asking me questions such as, "A 1000 books. How am I supposed to break this down day by day? Could you suggest tips and tricks on how I can make this journey fun and exciting for the kids?" And the parent says - well, so what can you guys tell us?
Olivia Darrell: Well, I will agree with you that when I first heard that number 1,000, I thought it sounded like a lot. But if you break it down, like you said, it becomes less intimidating. If you read just one book a day to your child you'll be done in less than three years. Reading two books a day will get you there in a little over a year. And if you've got a four-year-old, like Lauren, she can read three books a day to her daughter and she'll be done in less than one year. As for tips, first make sure the books that you're reading to your child are books that are fun for them on topics that interest them. Let them pick out the books. Read books in other languages if you can do so, and let them touch the books and help turn the pages. Also remember that kids do what they see us doing, so make sure that they see you reading for pleasure as well.
Lauren Martino: I like that one.
Christine Freeman: And don't forget, if you really want to accelerate your logging you can go to any of our branches, we have story times, and our story times, not only are they reading books, but they're doing early literacy moments. They're singing; they're doing finger plays. And every time they do one of those it counts. So your librarians will be telling you at each story time if they've completed 10 books or 15 books because they're counting early literacy moments as well.
Lauren Martino: So do you have any good recommendations for books for small children? Especially when you're going out a lot of times it's not always easy to find picture books that include various cultures, various people with different abilities. Do you have any favorites that you'd like to talk to us about?
Christine Freeman: Yeah, there are so many to choose from. And I have to give Olivia credit here; she finds some fabulous books for us. Some of my favorites recently are Thunder Boy Jr.; I have a junior in my house.
Lauren Martino: Yay!
Christine Freeman: So, I liked that he didn't want that name but he loved that name at the end. I Got the Rhythm, and I love that one because it has fabulous pictures and it has movement.
Olivia Darrell: Yes.
Christine Freeman: I like a lot of movement when I'm doing picture books with children. And Families, Families, Families! That one is so important because families can be any variation. And I love how that shows a variety of families.
Olivia Darrell: I love the ones that Christine suggested. And being the buyer of the picture books I came prepared with a long list, so here we go. The first one that I really love is Ada Twist, Scientist because it …
Lauren Martino: Yay!
Olivia Darrell: Includes not only diversity, inclusiveness, but also STEM, which is a big thing that we're pushing now as well.
Julie Dina: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: And Stinky Socks.
Olivia Darrell: Yes, of course. You can't go wrong there. Fairly new one to branches is Jabari Jumps, which is a really fun story of a boy who goes to the local pool and has decided that he's going to be brave and jump off the diving board, and then he's not so sure. So you have to read it to find out what happens at the end. A Hat for Mrs. Goldman is nice because it's not only got different cultures but it also has - it's intergenerational. So we have a young girl and her neighbor who is much older. And it's about their friendship. Another fun one is The Quickest Kid in Clarksville. If you've got a child who might be four or five, almost ready for kindergarten, you want to get them started with beginning readers, Get a Hit, Mo! and the other Mo titles by Adler are fun. We have some board books from DK that include Braille. Another board book is My Heart Fills With Happiness, which includes American Indians.
Lauren Martino: Oh yes.
Olivia Darrell: Malaika's Costume has a character from the Caribbean. And her mom immigrates to Canada, and so we see that experience of how it's hard to be away from mom. Looking for Bongo, by Velasquez is a fun one. It's an Afro-Latino character who's looking for his stuffed toy.
Christine Freeman: I really liked that one. It has nice pictures too.
Olivia Darrell: It does. We Sang You Home is another board book. In Plain Sight is by Jackson, but it's by …
Lauren Martino: Oh, I love that one.
Olivia Darrell: The illustrations by Jerry Pinkney, you can't go wrong with him.
Lauren Martino: That's one my child required numerous times.
Olivia Darrell: Yeah.
Lauren Martino: We've read that a lot of times.
Olivia Darrell: Yes. Again, intergenerational and your - like the seek-and-find element is fun.
Lauren Martino: It's not easy.
Olivia Darrell: Yeah, it's not.
Lauren Martino: It's like you look at those it's like you are going to need some grownup help to find.
Olivia Darrell: Right, yes.
Lauren Martino: Gosh, and it's so - like the pictures. Like this is a - just the details that were painted …
Olivia Darrell: Yeah, lots of detail.
Lauren Martino: It's like this is a real family that you took and just plucked out of reality. And you've got all the richness of their life.
Olivia Darrell: Absolutely.
Lauren Martino: Sorry, anyway.
Olivia Darrell: That's okay, I know.
Lauren Martino: I love that book.
Olivia Darrell: I'm glad.
Julie Dina: We believe you.
Olivia Darrell: I also really like Little Red and the Very Hungry Lion, which is a Little Red Riding Hood story set in Africa. Marta! Big & Small, which is an opposites book. And First Snow, by Park, which is about a little Korean girl. And finally the Lola character and her brother Leo by McQuinn, one of the recent ones is Lola Plants a Garden, those are really nice as well.
Lauren Martino: taking over my library level display right now.
Olivia Darrell: Really wonderful.
Lauren Martino: It's like you go Lola loves baby time, Lola loves the library.
Olivia Darrell: Yes.
Lauren Martino: Lola - yeah, there's just so many library-themed. I mean they're all wonderful.
Olivia Darrell: They are, yeah. And of course ask your librarian because they have favorites too, and they'll be able to suggest even more.
Lauren Martino: And now a brief message about MCPL's services and resources.
Febe Huezo: Looking for an adventure for your preschooler or kindergartner? They can explore a world of animals, outer space, music, and more while learning their ABCs and 123s. All this is possible with our online resource, BookFlix. BookFlix is filled with videos of classic stories like Where the Wild Things Are, and Giggle, Giggle, Quack. Each video story includes read-along captions and is paired with a related nonfiction book. For more information about BookFlix check out the link in this episode's show notes.]
Lauren Martino: Now, back to our program.
Lauren Martino: So, say I'm having a really super busy day and there is no time to read to my child. We are just not going to have five minutes at home. Do you have any tips for getting these early literacy moments, like in the line for the laundromat or in the car or just doing these everyday things that you have to do anyway just so that you can make progress on these horrible busy days.
Olivia Darrell: Sure. Yeah, when you're in the car you can be pointing out letters that you see on the signs. You can be singing the Wheels On The Bus, when they're on the changing table you can be doing This Little Piggy, or singing other songs with them. There are lots of ways. I'm sure Christine can give you even more.
Christine Freeman: Yeah, I grew up with a mom who always sang in the car. And those songs that she sang to me in the car I now do at story time.
Lauren Martino: Yay!
Christine Freeman: Yeah, so those are ones you remember, right. And I think other things, if you're busy cooking pull out pots and pans, have your kids banging on them and sing along with them; make it fun. Those are early literacy moments right there. They're going to be musically inclined when they grow up. If you're out taking a walk look out - point out signs, you can point out shapes, you can point out colors, you can count anything that helps them learn is considered early literacy moment.
Lauren Martino: It's amazing how entertaining street signs can be in the right circumstances.
Olivia Darrell: Yeah, colors, shapes, letters, there are so many things.
Christine Freeman: And kids are like little sponges, you know. I mean, you can talk to them. And I know my grandson; whenever I talk to him he has like five questions for everything I say. So you say something and he's like, "Why? How? When?" And that's how they learn - that's how children learn is that by - they ask you questions and you can point things out and explain to them what you're talking about.
Lauren Martino: So you just be prepared for every question to lead to five more.
Christine Freeman: Yes.
Olivia Darrell: And the more you talk to them the better. The more - again, the more they hear it just helps them with that eventual being able to learn to read.
Christine Freeman: And that really goes back to Every Child Ready to Read, which is what we base our story times on. I'm reading, talking, playing, writing, singing; that is how children learn. And that's how we want children to learn, by interacting and being involved.
Julie Dina: How can MCPL's resources help parents meet the 1,000 book challenge?
Christine Freeman: So we have books in various formats. We have print books, lots as you know, in our libraries.
Julia Dina: Lots and lots.
Christine Freeman: But we also have eBooks. We have something called BookFlix and something called TumbleBooks, and they're fabulous. You can have your kids look at them on the iPad and you can interact with them. They have words to scroll on the bottom. Some of them are interactive and they have little games you can play afterwards. And some of them are animated, like there's a George one that is animated, it's lots of fun. My grandson loves that, and he will like watch it and read it over and over and over again. Really though, I think our best resource are our librarians. You can go to our information desks, our librarians, that's what we do. We're happy to help you. We love to tell you our favorite books, walk you through the shelves, and help you find books that you can take home. And remember, the more books you take home, you can take out a hundred books, so don't hesitate.
Lauren Martino: And you know there's always going to be the couple that gets rejected so you may as well.
Christine Freeman: Exactly. And that's what I tell people too; take more because you can always set that one aside if you don't like it. And even little kids, they may not have a book that they like, that's fine. Set it aside, pick out the one they do like and read it over and over and over again.
Lauren Martino: You brought up something interesting. And we actually have been talking about this at home a lot. So you bring up electronic resources to help with early literacy. Do you think any, like, educational software or app or anything would count as a moment, or do you think there's special criteria, like what makes TumbleBooks a literacy moment versus we're sitting them in front of the TV?
Christine Freeman: Well, TumbleBooks is actually a book, it's an electronic book. So it's more of a book in the early literacy moment. But I think how to engage with children with screen time is we just want to be interactive with them, rather than give a child a device and set them aside, we want to have them on our laps and be reading it with them, just as we would with the book.
Lauren Martino: So really it's like the parent interaction that makes it a moment more than -
Christine Freeman: I think so. I mean, if you're looking at - like our AWE tablet, say, in our branches and you want to check out one of our AWE tablets and you're standing there playing games with your child, I think that's an early literacy moment, you're learning. They're learning about ABCs or maybe they're learning about colors and shapes. And those count as well.
Lauren Martino: But if you sent them over in the corner with Candy Crush by themselves.
Christine Freeman: Yeah, that's a little different. Yeah, any
Olivia Darrell: We are flexible, but that would likely cross the line.
Christine Freeman: And any screen time you want to use it wisely.
Lauren Martino: Uh-huh. Keep it honest folks, keep it honest.
Julie Dina: So for parents who say how do I get my child started with the program, what is your suggestion?
Olivia Darrell: Just bring your child to any MCPL library branch and talk to one of the staff members at our information desk. They'll be able to get you signed up on Beanstack and give you your first reading log. Then check out books and read, read, read.
Christine Freeman: And it's really cute how it's themed. It has this ocean theme that I'm super excited about that our wonderful designer came up with. And so all the stickers they receive are going to have like the number of books they finished with a little ocean critter, and their backpack and their little frame is going to be ocean-themed as well, super cute.
Olivia Darrell: And we're trying to figure out if we could incorporate like penguins into our little I read a 100 books thing for Silver Spring. They're ocean creatures.
Christine Freeman: It looked like little wood - like on a wood stick, and they can have that be like a selfie friend.
Lauren Martino: There you go, "Selfie friend.” Penguin selfie friend, I like it. You probably have a stuffed animal you can repurpose for that. Yeah, if you're not aware, Penguins are the unofficial mascot of Silver Spring so if you come to the Silver Spring library there are many, many penguins, which are ocean creatures. I really like the idea of - the coloring I think is going to be a lot of fun, like those little shells.
Christine Freeman: I think so too. And we should mention that parents who want to keep track of the books, they are welcome to use Beanstack to log every single title if they choose to do that. But if they don't want to log the books they can simply give the child a coloring form that their child can color in the shells and that's good enough too.
Lauren Martino: And there are some new ways to log on Beanstack now, aren't there?
Olivia Darrell: There are. So you can batch log. So if you don't have time every night to check in and say we read five books, we read one book, we did two moments, you can say, "Okay, well this week we did 10." And you can batch all 10 at once, all the way up to a hundred.
Christine Freeman: And if you need any assistance doing that don't forget you can always ask our librarians to help you batch log in your books.
Julie Dina: Most important thing it sounds like is whenever you're not sure, go to our librarians who are always ready to help.
Olivia Darrell: Yes. Some people think that librarians know everything. While I wish that were true, we don't know everything but we can find out almost anything for you.
Lauren Martino: So it looks like you're really trying to get beyond the library walls with this?
Christine Freeman: For sure. Because it's a program you really can do from home. You can read any books; they don't have to be library books. If you have a library in your house those books count. If you borrow books from another library, those books count. So any books that you're reading count, online, in print.
Olivia Darrell: Yeah. You're at the doctor's office waiting room and they have a book; that counts. And Julie, as you know, as an outreach staff member, that we're always trying to get new people coming through the door. So we're hoping to reach out to people who aren't already in our branches.
Julie Dina: You can count on me. We'll reach out and touch someone.
Christine Freeman: And it's not just books that parents read, it's the books than anybody reads. If they're with grandma and grandpa, if they're with their older sister or brother; if they're reading to them all those books count as well.
Lauren Martino: I think it's really important to get to people who aren't already going to the library.
Olivia Darrell: Very important, yeah.
Lauren Martino: Which is why, Julie, we are counting on you.
Julie Dina: Another episode.
Christine Freeman: It's an amazing resource that not all places have, free libraries.
Lauren Martino: An outreach department or free libraries?
Christine Freeman: Free libraries. And an outreach department.
Julie Dina: Good one, Christine.
Olivia Darrell: Which they're great too. They're great too.
Lauren Martino: So we love to ask our guests what are you reading right now that you are excited about, Olivia?
Olivia Darrell: So, believe it not, even though I buy lots of books, I don't have a lot of time to read lots of books. But I do a lot of listening. So I listen to podcasts. And my favorite one right now, besides of course Library Matters, is This American Life. I also listen to a lot of audiobooks. I'm in-between right now, but the one that I just finished is called No One Is Coming to Save Us.
Lauren Martino: Oh gosh, it's sounds cheerful.
Olivia Darrell: It's a little more cheerful than it sounds, but it's not a kid-friendly book by any means. One that I would recommend is The Awkward Thoughts of W. Kamau Bell. He reads it, and I always kind of like when the author reads their own book, and anything by Jason Reynolds.
Lauren Martino: Oh my Gosh, yes, can't go wrong.
Olivia Darrell: Can't go wrong.
Lauren Martino: And Christine, do you have anything that you'd like to talk to us about? You're laughing.
Christine Freeman: Okay, so I have to admit that in preparation for my role as a teen services person I read a lot of YA fiction. And I just finished the entire Selection series by Kiera Cass. So they're all about the princess and finding her prince.
Lauren Martino: They're not all about that. I've read these too.
Christine Freeman: They're fun. They're lighthearted easy reads for a rainy day on the weekend. I'm also in the middle of another book called Sucktown, Alaska by Craig Dirkes, it's a little darker, also a YA book that I'd recommend.
Julie Dina: Well, thank you so very much Olivia and Christine for coming on the program today.
Keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please review and rate us on Apple Podcasts, we would love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today. See you next time.
David Payne: Welcome to Library Matters with your host David Payne.
Julie Dina: And I'm Julie Dina.
David Payne: And today it's movie night. Get your popcorn ready. We are going to the movies. It's that time of year for the Academy Awards, better known as the Oscars. So what better to talk about movies in the company of MCPL’s great movie buffs, Fred Akuffo from the circulation department at Long Branch. Welcome, Fred.
Fred Akuffo: Thank you.
David Payne: And David Watts from the circulation department at Silver Spring library. Welcome, David.
David Watts: Good to be here.
David Payne: I should actually say welcome back because listeners may remember David as a host on Library Matters last year.
David Watts: It’s good to be back.
David Payne: And as I mentioned Fred and David are two of our greatest movie buffs in the library system, so we look forward to hearing from you about the movies today on what is a very gray February Wednesday just a right day for watching movies.
David Watts: Let’s light this thing up.
David Payne: That's right. So let’s start with a bit about yourselves. Fred, may if I can turn to you tell us about yourself and your passion for movies.
Fred Akuffo: Okay, well I'm Fred Akuffo. I work at the Long Branch library. I’ve been an extreme movie fan for all my life. I like watching movies that a lot of people don't like watching those are my favorite kind. I like movies off the beaten path like a lot of my friends don't watch cowboy movies anymore, but those are my favorites. I like movies where the director makes the most out of a low budget. Those are my kind of movies.
So B-Movies are very fun to me to see what they can do with the limited resources they have. But then again, I also like movies that are very compelling too. So movies that go on a different angle than your usual movie out there. So I like them to steer me in a way I wasn't expecting. But again, I pretty much watch anything that's out there. I even though watch La La Land would surprise me. So yeah, I'm up for a pretty much anything when it comes to film.
David Payne: That’s great. Thank you and David.
David Watts: I'm a classic movie lover who it’s my side passion just to go to the movies. I can remember my first movie my aunt took me to see Sound of Music in 1965, at the Silver Theatre, which is now the AFI in Silver Spring and it’s a great place to watch a movie. I go to probably 30 movies a year. I'm more the big budget type. So Fred, where I’m weak, Fred is strong.
David Payne: All right, let’s blend, let’s blend.
Julie Dina: That’s good.
David Watts: I date my life according to what movie was out at the moment. My right of passage was Star Wars in 1977 I was 16.
David Payne: And still going.
David Watts: And still going. Took my wife to see Color Purple that was our first movie together.
Julie Dina: Yeah, nice color.
David Watts: So, yeah, can remember different times of my life based on the movie that was out, yeah.
David Payne: Yeah, that’s great. Well, we got two very interesting magnificent people I’d say which is great.
Julie Dina: The key thing is they balance each other. [Laughs] So since you guys are movie buffs I'm sure you're aware of the Academy Awards. So can you tell us what you enjoy most or least about the Academy Awards, what is something you really enjoyed?
Fred Akuffo: Well, the least I enjoy about the Academy Awards is I don't think they give all of film the same look. For example, you’ll have your urban street films. I watch Urbanstreet Films on YouTube a lot and there is a lot of them. But you know, because of the poor acting sometimes the directing isn’t is up to par. But some of them are great stories and you'll never see any kind of mention. It’s not that they have to win or anything but you’ll never see any kind of mention of Urbanstreet film or somebody trying to promote that. The subject matter isn’t all that great but training days Urbanstreet film. And Denzel Washington had a win for that. So there is room for it. So I think they still need to branch out more to some of the more unpopular areas of film making.
David Watts: I think they're searching to be more inclusive part of what limits that or the rules that govern the Academy motion picture arts and sciences. You know, they have 6000 members who are voting members and not all of them are with the current culture. So I think they have tried to -- recently they voted to put a limit on how long you can have not actually been in a movie and still vote, which is 10 years now. So I think that's going to increase the diversity.
Another requirement that probably keeps a lot of street movies out is most people don't realize this but only motion pictures that have had a seven day run in Los Angeles qualify to be in the Academy Awards voting. So if you commercially can get your film into a theater for seven days there is no way that is going to be viewed or voted on by the Academy. So I think they are hopeful to broaden themselves and I think we see our whole culture evolving. So certainly you would hope they would become much more diverse.
David Payne: So do you think I mean, we’re now in the 90th year of the Oscars and obviously times have changed considerably since the earlier years, do you think it's a case of the Academy is sort of struggling to keep up?
Fred Akuffo: No, I think it’s actually kind of what Dave just mentioned. I mean, when you go by a certain rules for so long sometimes you have to evaluate your rules. You know, it’s like everything, business, whatever, Amazon changed the rules, Netflix changed the rules. And it’s probably a good thing that the Academy has taken at least some steps towards you know –.
David Watts: Yeah, and I think 2016 was instructive for them when they had their “wide out” and it sort of awaken them to need to refresh the rules that were governing their body and to try to be more towards what the public likes but not so much, not so much. And that’s his challenge you know that's the part for me. I enjoy seeing movie stars. I enjoy seeing people in our culture who are larger than life. And I'm not putting them up on a pedestal but I mean, they’re attractive people and they live a glamorous lifestyle. And while we might not aspire to that you do have to admire it in some sense. So I think that's the great thing about the Oscars to me.
Julie Dina: How about you Fred, what do you like about it?
Fred Akuffo: Well, like that is a gaze to success. So you know, it's something that you're aiming for or maybe not aiming for but if you can achieve, then you can be put in a group with other folks who’ve done so. And if you can achieve more than once, then you can actually change movies and change film, change future direction in movies. So whereas one film may have never gotten a look at one moment 15 years later ago now everybody is doing it so you know sometimes it can be a motivator.
David Payne: So let's turn to this year's Academy Awards. What do you think of this year's Academy Award nominees? Let's start with David.
David Watts: I've seen eight of the 10 nominees. I think it's probably on the scale of most years a weak crop. There is really not a blockbuster. They tend to be more towards the eclectic artsy side. Many would say a more towards the MD side of the business. So each of them make a statement and that’s the important thing about movies is what do they say to us as a culture and as a people. And what do we use as a launchpad for conversations based on our seeing those movies and relating to them.
David Payne: Fred, any thoughts?
Fred Akuffo: I agree. I don't think it was as strong as is before. I notice that this year I don't hear people talking about man, you’ve just got to see this you know or you just got to see that and I know this one is going to win. To me there is more of an up in the air feeling this year in terms of the nominees. So but I don’t mind that I mean, you know to me being more up in the air is actually better. It just gives more motivation for people to push and making their films more distinctive. It's I think is still moving forward is just this is not the hottest year so far.
Julie Dina: Maybe next year.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, there is always next year that’s the great part of our film, there is always next year and people start working on it now.
Julie Dina: Is there any movie that was actually nominated that you’ve seen that either of you have seen but think hardly anyone else has seen yet and could you tell us about that movie?
David Watts: I think you probably consider the whole crop. I mean, this was a terrible year at the box office. There are historically low box office figures for this year. So I think you would be certainly able to say that about most of the films that are in the best picture category. I saw Three Billboards in Ebbing Missouri, which is on its face, not a title, it causes you to run out and buy a movie ticket, but it was an excellent movie. Probably the biggest budget one in the top 10, The shape of Water of seeing Shape of Water. So I presume that most of the movie going public is going to be basing its opinions based on whether or not they've seen Shape of Water because that certainly will be the ones that the movie industry is behind and pumping to try to see win as many categories as possible to try to get people to go to the movies and see it.
Fred Akuffo: Actually, I think I'll also add Moonlight. I think there is quite a few people that haven’t seen Moonlight.
David Watts: Yeah.
Fred Akuffo: Good movie. I didn't even want to see it but after watching it I was you know –.
David Watts: I thought it was terribly depressing. [Laughs] And I think halfway through when they said well, we call the wrong movie its Moonlight. I said, oh my goodness.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah.
David Watts: That was probably my least favorite from last year.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, that's kind of my thing though. I like movies that you know some people when they’re going through it they’re really going through it for real. And that’s one movie where if you come out of that at the end of the movie it’s like come on, it doesn't really work like that. You know, what I mean. So I like movies that represent some of what people are really, really dealing with. And it's still an extreme case, you know that movie but –.
David Watts: I don't think people like to go to the movie and feel bad when they leave.
Fred Akuffo: That’s true, that’s true.
David Watts: And that’s always been my thing. I never really been much in the Spike Lee because he always ends his movies on a downbeat. And you spend your hard-earned money you want to come out feeling like your life is better somehow for having seen the movie.
Fred Akuffo: Right.
David Watts: And that was just my take on Moonlight.
Fred Akuffo: For me sometimes it's I'm glad that's not me and so my life is better. [Laughs]
Julie Dina: That’s another way to think.
David Watts: Things aren’t so great.
Fred Akuffo: That’s right I can go out of here. Man, I'm glad I'm not him. Okay, okay.
David Payne: With your two very different interests in movies here is an interesting question, what's the most obscure Oscar-winning movie you've ever watched?
David Watts: Come on Mr. B-Movies.
Fred Akuffo: Now Quentin Tarantino, has he gotten any of them?
David Watts: As best picture, no.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, okay.
Julie Dina: He didn’t get one for the Pulp Fiction.
David Watts: Wait a minute, I’ve got my cheat sheet here. Pulp Fiction, no.
Fred Akuffo: Or the one with Jamie Foxx.
Julie Dina: Django.
Fred Akuffo: Django.
David Watts: No, certainly not. [Laughs]. Surely you jest. I saw the most obscure movies obviously to American movie public are the foreign films and I saw Indochine in ’92 that was a very good movie. It was about French Indochina in the 1920s. And the female lead in that movie god, her name gets away from me, she is very popular. But anyways she'd raised a child. She'd raised an orphan and they later fell in love with the same soldier, which was made for an interesting kind of dynamic –.
Fred Akuffo: Okay.
David Payne: Sounds very complicated.
David Watts: Yeah, it’s very complicated and the movie didn't end with a conclusion that allows you to close your mind to this particular movie. But it was a very good movie and it won for best foreign film in 1992. And I thought it was a particularly good movie.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah.
David Watts: Then another obscure one maybe not so obscure was Hidden Dragon.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, yeah.
David Watts: Crouching Tiger won for foreign film I think in 2000 I’m not positive on the year on that but that was a very good movie, very entertaining.
Julie Dina: I really liked that.
David Watts: Yeah, for kids who grew up with Bruce Lee movies it was particularly gratifying to see.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, I liked that a lot because I’m a heavy, heavy martial arts film enthusiast.
David Watts: So you could really get into that and relate to that one, yeah.
Fred Akuffo: I could get into that.
David Watts: And flying, kicking scenes and all.
Fred Akuffo: Not as much the flying around and stuff because I'm more of the –.
David Watts: The true martial arts.
Fred Akuffo: The pre Bruce Lee type. So I actually think Bruce Lee destroyed martial arts film because he cause a fight scenes to end in like one second whereas before it would be like two minutes for a fight scene to take place. So you know, I'll keep my [Multiple Speakers]. But yeah, that was one. One I thought was obscure and probably because I didn't know anything at all about I guess the culture but The Piano I think won, right.
David Watts: Yes.
Fred Akuffo: And at the time I watched I found it obscure.
David Payne: It takes a bit of re-watching.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah.
Julie Dina: And now a brief message about MCPL services and resources.
Febe Huezo: Watching the Oscars or Golden Globe Award ceremonies is fun to do with friends. But it's even better to watch the films themselves. With my MCPL card I can borrow award-winning movies for free. There is nothing better than browsing the DVD collection at my library. Stop by our branch today or check this episode show notes for more information about our DVD collection.
Julie Dina: Now back to our program.
David Payne: Well, Oscars certainly has a history of going counterculture and so you always have to be careful of that. When the artist won in 2012, I think I broke my TV because it was –.
Fred Akuffo: The black and white or --.
David Watts: Well, no and not even for that reason I mean, I've watched extensively silent movies and that wasn't a particularly good silent movie. But that was the hot or in thing just let us last year with lot I mean, a year before last with La La Land we got the same thing. La La Land was okay but if you're really in the movies and you're really into musicals La La Land sucked. Excuse me, if I shouldn’t say that.
Julie Dina: So as we are all aware especially both of you there are 24 categories in the Oscars. If you could change or add to any of them what exactly would it be?
Fred Akuffo: Fight choreography would be one I’d put in. I think they need to think about that kind of quality in the movies. You know, when you have action you wanted to look as real as possible.
David Watts: Absolutely.
Fred Akuffo: Well, maybe not. Sometimes you wanted to look as vague as possible, but within passing reality if that makes any sense. Sometimes the Return of the Jedi, the fight scenes look great. I mean, that returned into the Star Wars fighting looks great. But then in the next movie is a different fight choreography and it doesn't look so hot. But if they were let's say a category for that you’d always make it look good. So you know it would make for better action movies. You know, what I mean. And then one I don't necessarily need is the sound group or whatever you know that always wins. They can win it but you don’t need like 15 minutes in the show to show it. But I’m sure those sound guys work hard so they deserve it.
David Watts: Yes and big ups to our sound guys. [Laughs]
Fred Akuffo: There is a place, sorry.
David Watts: I would say we need to add a comic con section because we have all of these superheroes now and certainly I think they need a category unto themselves where their movies aren’t judged against the dramatic movies.
David Payne: So looking ahead to this year's awards you both mentioned it doesn't look like a great year as far as the movie quality. But can you guess which movie will take home the most Oscars this year?
David Watts: It would be Shape of Water. I mean, it's a big budget film with a big studio behind it. I believe it's nominated for 13 Academys of which it probably will take home seven to eight. The juries do allow over whether it's the best picture. The female leading actress who did a phenomenal job probably is going to lose to Frances McDormand who will win for Three Billboards. The male lead did a particularly good job but he is not there yet. He will probably win in a year or two. This year belongs to Gary Oldman who will win for Darkest Hour. His performance was phenomenal although it was hard to believe that he was Winston Churchill. No, slide aside the prosthetics were not very good but his performance was excellent. Winston Churchill certainly is a historic figure renowned for his strength of will and force of character and Oldman did an excellent job portraying that.
David Payne: Fred, any thoughts?
Fred Akuffo: Yeah and I haven't got into those yet. Although I do think the subject matter for Billboards will probably have some to do with. I think people you know there is like a non-trusting aspect in society now for different authorities, different entities and things like that. And that kind of speaks to it on you know make sure these people do what they say they’re going to do it all that kind of thing. So I think that'll have some to do with in impact.
David Watts: Yeah, Michael Sharon was the actor I couldn't think of who was in Shape of Water and is nominated for best actor. I don't think he will win, but I think he is coming. He is in more and more feature films and he does an excellent job portraying the characters. I do think that Margot Robbie is making some heads turn so while she won't win as best actress she is another one who is on the way. She is establishing herself.
Julie Dina: Okay, so on another note, since that we know our customers will be listening to this podcast they’ll probably come run into the branches. What are you both doing at your branches to celebrate the Oscars?
Fred Akuffo: Well, at my branch we have a display at the front of the circ desk that's off from the DVD collection. And that display has what I would call the higher-quality newer movies sitting on it. So these are movies that are 2018, ‘17 that by customer rating rate over a certain amount. And I find that folks as soon as they come through the door shoot right to that display get their things and get their movies that they're looking for that they are surprised to see sometimes and then head on out. So other the Oscar movies are on there along with some other movies that are of the same quality but maybe just not as popular. So just one little thing you do that kind of boost that level of interest for those people who enjoy film.
David Payne: And just a reminder that’s at Long Branch.
Fred Akuffo: Long Branch library, yeah.
Julie Dina: You also serve popcorn?
Fred Akuffo: No, not yet. But I do give suggestions and our oral reviews of the ones that I have watched off of that display rack which people seem to enjoy. And also they’ll bring it over and ask me, what do you think about this, what do you think about that and they want to know what I really think. You know what I mean. So I try to give them my best on that.
David Payne: So there you have the listeners you want to about a movie go to Long Branch.
Julie Dina: Go to Long Branch. How about you David?
David Watts: Yeah, we’re putting out a book display I just talked with our senior librarian and we’re doing a book display on the books that were adapted into movies To Kill a Mockingbird, Godfather, which is my all-time favorite. There is several books that have been adapted and we’re going to feature those books in a display near our circulation desk.
David Payne: So let's look ahead further into the year and pause the Oscars themselves. Which 2018 to be released films are you both looking for to seeing?
David Watts: I never look ahead. I hate to be a kill joy.
Fred Akuffo: You just name as they come.
David Watts: Well, yeah, I focus on what's current what’s out although I'm sure there are some interesting things coming. My daughter was telling me that the follow-up to Justice League is the optimal war or something along those lines. And I assured her it won't be a final one. She said, dad, this is the last one. I said, no, it’s not.
David Payne: Just like Star Wars.
David Watts: It’s not the last one.
David Payne: Fred.
Fred Akuffo: I’m looking forward to the Hans Solo part of that. I guess it’s part of that series.
David Watts: Yes.
David Payne: So, I like the last one they did so which surprised me because I didn't like Rogue One, but yeah, they build on it. I think it'll win. Everybody wants to know the origin know of Hans Solo of what, who in the world he is so I think it’ll be another successful one.
Julie Dina: So it's obvious you guys watch a lot of movies. However, I am wondering, do you actually go to the movie theater to watch these movies and if you do, do you prefer watching it on the big screen compared to watching it at home?
Fred Akuffo: This feels like a confessional. [Multiple Speakers] No, I'm probably not like my man Dave here. I don’t do 30 a year. And I definitely don’t do them at the movie theater just because you know I got two kids. By the time I'm getting out there we’re talking like $90 you know what I mean. So it's a little bit pricey.
David Payne: Oh, you can't take them for it. Your passion is not their passion.
Fred Akuffo: Surprisingly my son is definitely a movie guy. He comes to me and says hey, dad, you got to check this new movie out.
Julie Dina: Wow.
Fred Akuffo: And he is when I'm talking about films he is very eager to hear what I think about them. So for like The Avengers, The Justice Leagues you know and I tell him things like, you know, I don’t like those guys because or Batman, let’s put the Batman. I’m not a fan of Batman. And he is like how can you not be a fan of Batman. I’m like because Batman didn’t have any superpowers. And so he is very interested in why I don't like certain things and he looks forward to seeing movies that I do like so that he can see how else he can experience the movies. You know, what I mean. So it’s kind of interesting. But yeah, going to the theater is a little bit challenging, more challenging than it was when I was younger so.
Julie Dina: Have you thought about coupons?
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, I would need it. I would need a $30 coupon you know, right. I mean, we’re talking about I mean, when I was going to the theatre it’s like you could go to a dollar theater, dollar movie.
Julie Dina: It’s true.
David Payne: No such thing.
Julie Dina: I used to go to go to those.
Fred Akuffo: Now, a dollar you can’t even –.
Julie Dina: You can buy popcorn.
Fred Akuffo: Nothing, you know, there is nothing for a dollar. In fact the candy is almost as much as the movie. So it’s tremendous.
David Watts: Well, let me tell you my secret.
Fred Akuffo: Okay, give me one.
David Watts: We live parallel lives here so I do know that you get a day off during a week and if you go to the first show AMC is $5, okay.
Fred Akuffo: Okay.
David Watts: So as long as you don’t drag your crumb snatchers along, it's a pretty reasonable venture and it’s a good escape and it also helps I think center you given your responsibilities and duties this in the library.
Fred Akuffo: Definitely.
David Watts: You need some time alone. You need some destressing and that's what I use the movies for. I watch movies at home and at the movies I watch classic movies at home and really that's my forte.
Julie Dina: I love classic movies.
David Watts: I’m a classic movie watcher of the 100 or so movies that have been best picture I've seen 98 of the 100. So that's because I really get into classic movies. The modern movies I like the ones who are near the top of the crop. Not so much like Fred, I'm not digging down in the bargain bin to watch your first effort.
Fred Akuffo: I love the bargain bin.
David Watts: Yeah, I’m not doing that. But one of the things that has changed with movies overtime is dialog has changed and as you talked about sound, the reason they give those awards for sound is because it's particularly difficult to balance dialog and sound effects. And when you go to the theater you’ll because of Dolby technology you’ll hear that thumping base but then you'll get to the dialog part as Mark is motioning to me speak up, speak up, speak up and that's how you know you really didn't have the best sound guy.
Fred Akuffo: Right.
David Watts: And you don't have that with the classic movies. The classic movies used smaller ensemble cast. It was easy to understand who the characters were and they had to play off of each other. Now, you have huge amounts of cast in movies you know that are in double digits that they never did. In the classic age of movies they never had more than 10 actors in a movie. So it was very easy to know the characters, to know the plot, to understand, to not have your brains blown out by base in the sound effects. They threw in sound effects, but they weren’t for the purposes of waking people up as they are now. They used the sound effects in modern movies to keep a somnolent moviegoer from falling asleep.
Fred Akuffo: So to me, I look at as a little different. Like let's take John Wick pure action. There is nothing to think about except what you’re looking at in front of you. The sound part, although I don't --.
David Watts: But John Wick is ultraviolet. You could not have taken your kids today.
Fred Akuffo: No, no, we didn’t go to that long way.
David Watts: Please tell me you did not take your –.
Fred Akuffo: That’s my $5 I bought myself. [Laughs] But that one where they shoot the guns and you can hear the bullet shells hit the floor, you know that's where your sound and dialog that you know for so John Wick there is no dialog. So that's kind of where I look forward to, you know, the sound even though I don't want them to take 15 minutes in the award ceremony. But so I do appreciate them but yeah, there is a catch, Catch-22 to all that, I guess you know.
David Payne: Okay, so we usually end our interviews asking the guests what they are reading right now. Perhaps we should ask you what you’re watching Fred.
Fred Akuffo: Let's see. The last thing I watched DVD I watched was a series called Insecure. You know, I’m finding the series to be pretty entertaining as well as you know the feature films. So I'm getting into a lot of the series. So Insecure is about a young lady trying to manage her young life in the workforce in I guess is Los Angeles with all of what society has to offer some of it pleasant, some of it not so pleasant.
It's one that a lot of the young folks are watching. Other series like you know Newsroom, Deadwood different series that talked about different things that I don't really experience. I’m not in the new circuit. I'm not in the wild frontier, but those movies did a very good job of depicting those particular types of lifestyle. So I like watching series for that kind of thing to be transported in a believable sense to another place.
David Payne: Great and David.
David Watts: Well, I'm doing it all. I consume it in every way possible. Last movie, All The King’s Men with Broderick Crawford 1949 Oscar winner. I just finished Midnight Line by Lee Child is part of a Jack Reacher series. I’m reading Origin by Dan Brown, big Dan Brown fan. So yeah, whatever way I can get content I’m upon it.
David Payne: Sounds like you have it.
David Watts: I have it, yeah.
Fred Akuffo: I’d tell you one of my latest watches that I really liked was Fences. I thought that was a different kind of look for somebody who is a major film player. So I thought Denzel playing a broken guy who –.
David Watts: Well, he actually won the Tony for that performance. He should've won the Oscar.
Fred Akuffo: He should have, yeah.
David Watts: He should have won the Oscar and that was my disappointment with Moonlight, yes.
Fred Akuffo: Right, because I thought it was very well done. I thought it was realistic. You know, I thought it was –.
David Watts: It was passionate.
Fred Akuffo: I thought it was a passionate centered performance you know, and the compelling part was that he wasn't running away or he didn’t let the character run away from you know life’s ills.
David Watts: Then he should have won best actor for that that Casey Affleck won for Manchester by the Sea which was another depressing movie. Denzel was robbed but he has been robbed many times during his career. He was robbed in Hurricane when Kevin Spacey beat him out for American Beauty. He was also robbed for his performance in Malcolm X. He is certainly was well deserving for Fences, yes, absolutely.
Fred Akuffo: So if you’re dad out there pick up Fences it’s a good one.
David Watts: And I just wanted so you know he is the actor of my time. You know, a lot of people where Daniel Day-Lewis is nominated this year for Phantom Thread and that was a disappointing movie and a disappointing performance from Daniel Day-Lewis. But those are two penultimate actors of my age group.
Fred Akuffo: Daniel Day-Lewis is definitely my guy too, yeah definitely.
David Watts: Yeah, he is Denzel and Daniel Day-Lewis and you know that's one of the wonderful things about movies. I can look back at different eras and see people who dominated the movies during those periods. Sidney Poitier, he was particularly strong actor in the 60s. You go in the 40s it was Bogey. You go in the 50s, Brando, On The Waterfront. So it’s just amazing to look back over your life and see how these artists affect you both visually and you know viscerally because they do. You go to the movies and you feel emotive. You want to express yourself as you come out. You go to a love story and you feel love. You go to a tearjerker and you come out crying.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, I got some stuck in my throat.
David Watts: Yeah, exactly, you’re not crying. My wife always says, yeah, crying over there, are you?
Fred Akuffo: Well, I cannot swallow, you know. [Laughs] Actually that’s how I give a movie credit. If it can make me tough to swallow then I know you did something.
David Watts: Brian's Song, right?
Fred Akuffo: Well, more like let’s say De Niro in um, is it the Awakening when he was they were trying some research Robert Williams and De Niro, yeah that was a that had me swallowing and trying, yeah, I couldn’t get it down.
Julie Dina: But you weren’t crying.
Fred Akuffo: Yeah, I’m not all the way, not all the way, yeah.
Julie Dina: Well, this has been very, very entertaining and I would like to thank you David and Fred for joining us today.
Fred Akuffo: No, we’re happy to be here.
David Watts: Thank you for having us, yeah.
Julie Dina: Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please review and rate us on Apple podcasts would love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today. See you next time.
David Payne: Welcome to Library Matters with your host David Payne.
Julie Dina: And I’m Julie Dina.
David Payne: And for today's episode we’re going to be talking about romance just in time for Valentine's Day. And joining me today I have two I have romance readers from our MCPL staff both Children’s Librarians at our Silver Spring branch Carly Beveridge.
Carly Beveridge: Hi, everybody. It’s nice to be here today.
David Payne: And Michelle Halber.
Michelle Halber: Hello, thank you so much for having us.
David Payne: And thank you very much for joining us. Let’s start with a bit about yourselves, why do you both like romance books?
Carly Beveridge: I started reading romance novels back in high school. I think they're just kind of sometimes it’s just an escape to read them. The nice thing is they have so many different mixes with different genres. And they have you can find great stories and great characters.
Michelle Halber: I started actually much later. I was a snob about romance novels when I was younger. But as I've gotten older I have three kids and I definitely like to have the happy ever after and it's just fun. You can read the historicals where you get pretty clothes and pretty dresses and lots of friendships and then you can read the contemporaries and it just is a lot more fun to read that something that's a little bit lighter and not as heavy.
Julie Dina: Would you then say that thank God for romance books now you have your three kids.
Michelle Halber: I've never got it that way. [Laughs] But yes, actually they do help keep me more safe.
David Payne: Obviously, a new way of thinking there.
Michelle Halber: There is a new way of thinking. I love my historicals. I love the children’s books but it’s just so especially right before bed, it's just a way for me to relax. I know I don't have to necessarily worry I can get into a story. They can still be engrossing. There can still be some thriller types or romantic suspense novels. But I know I don't have to worry about whether the heroine or the hero is going to survive till the end of the story.
Carly Beveridge: Well, I can say even as a single person that God for themselves [Laughs]. I think that’s a nice thing about them is that anybody can really pick them up and there is such a wide variety even just for anybody. So I enjoy them. The nice thing is with my family we kind of go, hey, this is a good one to read and my dad and I even share them like my mom and I and my dad and I we share them and say hey, this is a good one because we look for good stories, not just hey, this is that it’s very typical body stripper where it is just what they call the smut book or it’s just nothing but hey, they’re romping around in the sheets. [Laughs] So we look for like this and the good characters, the good story just like any good book. So like I said my family we share them around. And Michelle and us one of the things we’ve started talking about we share authors back and forth and hey, this is a good book so, yeah.
Julie Dina: That’s really cute.
David Payne: That’s great. But awful family reading.
Carly Beveridge: Yeah.
David Payne: So we’ll know in our heads what a romance novel is. But let me ask you, maybe start with Michelle, how would you define a romance book?
Michelle Halber: That's one of the really nice things about romance is they’re not. There is no one definition of a romance book even in Montgomery County Public Library systems you will find romance novel, you will find books about romance or books that have romance in it in the fiction shelves, in the romance shelves even in the science fiction shelves. So there is not really one type of book, there is romance with a little bit of supernatural, there is romance with there are stories Philippa Gregory's books could be kind of considered she has written a whole bunch of stuff on the Tudors about the wives and of Henry VIII and that could be considered in some ways romance. It may not necessarily and happily but it’s still there is still romance in it. Just about any book could be considered to be a romance book. And that's I think one of the things that a lot of people don't realize in a story. I mean, you can pull up a James Patterson or a Victor Flynn and there is some kind of romance somewhere. Indiana Jones, there is romance in that so part of that is a romance whether it is considered a romance novel or not.
David Payne: So typically a romance novel can cross several genres.
Michelle Halber: It can cross every genre.
David Payne: Yeah, would you agree?
Carly Beveridge: Yes, I would agree the nice thing about romance is that it has many sub genres. I’m going to give you the definition for the romance novel itself. It has to do with a plot that actually centers around two individuals falling in love but there has to be an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending. Now lately there has been some disagreement between authors whether or not there actually has to be that optimistic ending whether there has to be a happy ending or not. Because not everything you know not everybody like the Tutors that kind of stuff. There Philippa Gregory, her books, you know, can be considered romance, but there is not always a happy ending. So you know, not every romance situation is going to be a happy ending. But so people are more open to that kind of stuff now.
David Payne: Is that a newer trend?
Carly Beveridge: Yes, that is a newer trend, yes.
Julie Dina: And you’re one. [Laughs] So while we’re still on the topic, what are the typical characteristics of a romance literature?
Carly Beveridge: Okay, so the typical characteristics. So obviously you’re going to have two we tend to have two main characters. A lot of times it’s either told first person, third person point of view. Doesn’t it mean once what do you think Michelle?
Michelle Halber: Traditionally there is going to be an expectation of a happy ending. There will be some kind of arc in terms of a meeting whether it's brand-new or whether it's a past love and then usually right around the midway point in the book is where the relationship really starts to deepen and then it’s usually some kind of conflict. It's just like any traditional novel because I forgot the question. But the typical characteristics so it’s just like any traditional novel. And that's I think part of why I don't necessarily understand the negative stereotype because it really is a traditional novel. It's just gotten a bad wrap over the years I think.
Julie Dina: Why do you think?
Michelle Halber: I think it has to do with back, you know, back when they first really started coming out back in what was 1800s, early 1900s it was seen more as a you know we be woman's kind of book to pass the time is kind of a frivolous type book. So I think that's kind of where it started and then a lot of people they look at some of the I think the Harlequin type series where they see those just the covers and go oh, that doesn’t look like a good reading. And a lot of times if you get into the books those covers look absolutely nothing like what the characters depict inside even look like. So it’s just really taking the time just like any book, you got to look at read the first chapter see what it's about, look read the inside cover. So you got to look past the cover of the book, which is why a lot of times when somebody is looking for when I'm helping customers and patrons a lot of times if somebody is looking for a light read I will hand them something like Kristan Higgins, which my favorite of hers is The Best Man, it’s a cute story, it’s lot of fun, nothing serious.
But it's just got a picture of a boy and a girl and they're just standing around. And so it's not and I've had a customer say, oh, good it's not a shirtless man that’s on the cover, yeah. So it’s a nice way of kind of leading them in and not I think the e-readers have made a huge difference in this. I think this is when 50 Shades became so big was because people could read it on their e-reader until nobody knew what they were reading. And it's a little bit less intimidating than somebody seeing you on the subway with a shirtless man covered book, right. But that's part of it I think is that not the shirtless men covered books are not good because they are but it makes some people hesitant to take them seriously
Julie Dina: And they might catch a cold. [Laughs]
David Payne: Leaving nothing to the imagination. So with that let’s go to our big question. I’ll start with you, Carly. Do you have a favorite romance author and novel?
Carly Beveridge: Oh, okay, yeah, Michelle and I’ve been talking about this for a while. So I don’t know just like it's really hard to pinpoint. I have a couple of favorite readers authors that I go to. I really like Lynsay Sands, Sherrilyn Kenyon, Kerrelyn Sparks. I tend to like the more paranormal kind of like a vampire, werewolf those kinds of stories. And I like the series stories where you get to continue on with familiar characters. So I tend to go with those. But I also like The Outlander series so that’s more of your historical time travel. I am a – I like reading all kinds of different stuff. Also my family is also Scottish, so that throws that there in too. But honestly I’ll go into library or Barnes & Noble or even the grocery store and I'll look at the books and I’m like oh, I haven't seen this one yet. So I'll turn the book over and I’ll start looking at it. But yeah, like I’ve said, I need good characters, I need a good story. If I see like I’m kind of turned away by characters that are like oh, she is just sitting there just crying that’s not going to do it for me. I like strong characters.
She is getting up a lot of the ones in like some of Lynsay Sands characters or female characters they’re vampires and they get how they have connections they have life mates. And the guy would then go, I’m here and you're my life mate and you go like, no, you’re not. [Laughs] I don’t know what you’re talking about. So like I said, I like the strong characters and they’re set in more I'm fine with contemporary modern times, and like I said with The Outlander, what's neat with that one is it skips around between Scotland and World War II England and World War I and then I also my family they’ve read all the books too. So like I said, my family we share books and we also watch the TV series too. So yeah, those are some of my favorites. Lately, I've also been going to Overdrive, one of our e-reading. I'll go for more for the audio books for that to download the audio books just because I have a nice long drive to and from work.
So it’s great with my car. And I've got one of the cars with the Bluetooth sinking between my phone and my car so I can listen through my car which is very nice. I go to Overdrive to download the books and several of those authors are on there. We may not be able to find it on the shelf at the library. So I'll go there and get the audio book or the e-book and the nice thing too is I've made requests there for purchases to be made. And I’ve got notifications that they've been requested. So that's been really nice too. So we can always get the requested at the library, but we can get it on Overdrive.
David Payne: And Michelle?
Michelle Halber: For contemporary my favorite author is Kristen Ashley. And there is only just a few of hers that's available through Overdrive. She has got a couple on audio through Overdrive and then one for the e-book. I do a lot of e-book reading. I tend to do it a lot more than I do the actual paper copies because I'm going to and from different appointments and shopping the book I’d rather just take the reader it’s a lot easier. One of the things I do like about Kristen Ashley is that she tends to have more mature characters. Some of them are past childbearing age. Some of them are in their mid to late 20s and early 30s. And that's a more unique population and it's not you know the 18-year-old who was just coming in and the young adult type book. She is more of an older a lot of her characters tend to be older and she has written a ton of books. She has written like 50. For historical, I guess, and only in thinking about all of this if I realize that I probably actually tend to more historical and I had talked to Carly and she tends to do those series.
And I’m like by book 25 I kind of go by The Harry Potter Rule. If it’s more than seven oh my god [Multiple Speakers]. Come on. No, so I kind of like a series to start and end. You can have some cross meeting of characters from different series and that’s a lot of fun. But yeah, I’d like a series to end. I don't want the children of the children or where the next cousins in the town over but we start a new series. But I do tend to go to historical I really like Julia Quinn. She has got a lot of humor in her books. The Viscount I guess who I can’t remember the title is just so funny. So she has got a lot of humor. Lisa Kleypas has a series called the Wallflowers Series. I think it secrets on an autumn night. I think is book one it’s just four girls who are considered wallflowers for different reasons and they kind of band together and it’s much about friendship as it is about love.
So you're seeing their relationships with each other develop as well as you’re seeing relationships with partners develop. For diversity and historical Beverly Jenkins is phenomenal and Alyssa Cole is on a ton of lists as having one of the best romance novels of 2017. And I'm still in the middle of that because that is a pretty powerful book. So it's not one that you can just read as easily as you can some of the other romances. You really do need to sit down to really enjoy it because there is a lot of rich historical detail in there.
David Payne: Great, thank you.
Julie Dina: That’s plenty.
Michelle Halber: We should give you more.
Carly Beveridge: I’m sure.
Michelle Halber: We have lists.
David Payne: How much time do we have?
Julie Dina: I guess this won’t be the time for me to say, tell me more, tell me more. So with all of this being said, would you say romance novels or romance movies have changed within the past 15, 20 years?
Michelle Halber: Well, as I said, I have three kids an 18-year-old, a 12-year-old and an 8-year-old. So I have not [Multiple Speakers] getting out of house was an accomplishment for many, many, many years. So I cannot tell you about those movies but hopefully Carly can.
Julie Dina: Maybe Carly can. It’s on you Carly.
Carly Beveridge: I don’t know like as far as movies and TV shows and things like that I think people are still interested in watching like we've still seen redoing things like Jane Austen and those kinds of books. So there are certain classics, things like that. I don't think those are going to lose, those are timeless. We have seen things like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies things like that. So we've seen kind of some trying to update and get more of the young adult teen interested in that and trying to modernize some of that. But you’ve gotten things like Bridget Jones Diary, which is considered the chick lit in there. But I think what you have seen is maybe more acceptance of like the LGBT in with the romance genre with more of those characters with romance movies and TV series, things like that. I think that’s maybe the big change that we’ve have seen in past several years.
Michelle Halber: Even Downton Abbey, there was a lot of romance in Downton Abbey. And the arcs just kept going I mean, when the actor who played Matthew I think his name was left the show, they ended up trying to find that character another guy and that was part of the series. So they knew that even in something like Downton Abbey part of what was keeping people interested was a type of romance and there is some LGBT in that show. So they are definitely there are some new conversations that are being added to these books and these movies that make it I think a little bit more unique than there used to be.
Julie Dina: I'm glad you mentioned chick lit. What's the difference, what’s the primary difference between the two, between chick lit and romance?
Michelle Halber: The main difference is that with chick lit you don't always have to have its not always just to focus on romance between a woman and partner. A lot of times is more contemporary. You're looking at usually from the woman's point of view a lot of times it could be between about woman's friendships in her workplace and things like that. Again one of the iconics is Bridget Jones Diary that that's kind of an iconic chick lit book movie those kind of things. So I guess it's often the modern womanhood is what you're looking at with chick lit. You do have kind of a lot of controversy around some chick lit as far as you know is it really a legitimate kind of field and you know whether or not it's worth, you know, is it great to read.
Julie Dina: I like your expressions here. [Laughs]
Michelle Halber: But you know what, it’s very popular. And those books just they can have great storylines being great characters and strong characters. So chick lit is I’ll say I think it’s just as important. Those stories are just as important and people identify with those characters. So and they a lot of times do have romance and one of the lines that really sticks out in Bridget Jones you know that iconic he likes you just the way you are. So I love that line. So it gets flashing but it has great, they have great lines, great stories. So again, it's your choice what you read.
Carly Beveridge: And a lot of romance, especially contemporary romance does have a piece of like a romantic suspense to it either there is some danger and that wouldn't be in the chick lit or there is a kidnapping or I can even think. But there is more to what's happening in the romance because there can be military romances. So you could be on the battlefield, which you wouldn't see in a chick lit. There could be I don’t know sports brawls and all sort of things like that that wouldn't come up in a chick lit type novel. So especially with the contemporaries and that's usually what chick lit is, it’s usually a contemporary novel. There is some I hate to say there is sometimes a more depth in the romance then there is a chick lit but that's almost the way it is because there is usually a conflict in the romance that has a little bit stronger than the conflicts that would be in a chick lit that made any sense [Laughs].
David Payne: Yeah, so perfect sense to me.
Julie Dina: Perfect.
David Payne: Talking about terminology and I think you mentioned the term earlier called the bodice-ripper.
Carly Beveridge: Yeah.
David Payne: Something is always associated with the romance genre. Can you talk about what bodice-ripper actually is?
Carly Beveridge: I think a lot of that stigma has to do with again the whole Fabio covers with the romance. It’s, you know, just that whole picture in your head of the scene of just the woman's old-style bodice being bulled after like the elaborate sex scene. But really it's a lot of times in the stories you know that's a very small piece of what's actually happening. And you have a range from some stories that really there is just some small kissing to all the way to U genre like the erotic genre where it’s more in depth. But yeah, I think that’s really what it comes down to it’s just that whole stigma of that picture of you know just that scene in people heads.
Michelle Halber: And there is actually a sub genre of romance I mean, Carly was talking about some of them, but there is actually something called clean or Christian romance, which is a one without a whole lot of physicality mentioned descriptions or anything like that but it's all still romance. So it’s not just the bodice-ripper. It's not just the girl waiting to be saved. Courtney Milan, who is generally historical I mean, her characters what I love about her stuff and I think we have some of the books at Montgomery County Public Libraries but it’s also Overdrive. And even some of them are on cloudLibrary as well, which is the other downloadable e-book we can access through Montgomery County Public Libraries with your library card and your pin number, which is usually the year you were born.
She has got scientists. She has got just very unique characters. She has got one woman who was a champion chess player for many years when she was a child. She has got another one who is a scientist and had to hide her papers under her friends name because he was male and could take all of these really, really intellectual smart women struggling to survive in a time period where that love is difficult. I don’t even know how we got onto that the bodice-ripper. [Laughs] But it’s not like these women are necessarily stupid either, so there is just an intelligence about these characters that make it very appealing and it’s not the bodice-ripper is such a we don’t want people to think that that's how we don’t want you to view it that way anymore.
Carly Beveridge: Yes.
David Payne: Somewhat old-fashioned.
Carly Beveridge: Yes.
Michelle Halber: It’s an old-fashioned terminology of looking at, yes, there we go, thank you.
Julie Dina: There has been a change.
Lauren Martino: And now a brief message about MCPL service and resources.
Lisa Navidi: This month we celebrate Black History month not only with displays of books and DVDs, but also with special films, speakers, book discussion and a virtual trip from Selma to Montgomery. There is something for everyone in your family. You can find a link to our Black History month events and resources in this episode show notes.
Lauren Martino: Now back to our program.
Julie Dina: So do either of you have any favorite romance characters?
Michelle Halber: Okay, so I’d have to say one of my favorite is Jamie from Outlander. He is definitely one of my favorites.
Julie Dina: Are you in love?
Carly Beveridge: Yeah, I’ve got part of it, tattooed on my arm. Part of it’s because I’m Scottish but part of it has to with Outlander. I love my Outlander. [Multiple Speakers]
David Payne: Must be that kilt.
Carly Beveridge: Yeah, the kilt, the hair, and the accent.
Julie Dina: How about you Michelle?
Michelle Halber: No, I don’t think so. Well, I'm reading it. I can follow them with any character.
Julie Dina: Yeah.
Carly Beveridge: But no.
Julie Dina: That’s good too. And it could be in the next book.
Carly Beveridge: Could be. I could fall in love with the character in the next book and that’s always part of the fun.
Julie Dina: And I’m sure, MCPL will have to have book for you.
David Payne: So as I mentioned earlier we’re coming up to Valentine's Day. Do both of you have suggestions for anyone feeling particularly lonely on Valentine’s Day, where would you start?
Michelle Halber: I would absolutely not have them read a romance novel that might make me feel little lonely but I’ll lead them to a very interesting non-fiction perhaps. [Laughs] Something interesting, something about somewhat no, my gosh, no of course not. You think read one the day after they can read one day before but the day of Valentine’s Day, no. You got your friends. [Multiple Speakers] The joint motion like all the single ladies thing with Beyonce where they used to I don’t know if they still do. Don’t quote me where they used to teach the dance for women and men, presumably in their theater at one of their studios on Valentine's Day. So I would do and the power of being one. I wouldn’t focus on the fact that you don't necessarily have anybody to spend and I go and have fun, don’t read a romance novel that would be what I would say.
David Payne: How do you follow that Carly?
Carly Beveridge: I'm going to go if I go out, go have fun.
David Payne: And there you have it.
Carly Beveridge: Why do you do that to yourself?
David Payne: So do you have or both of you a favorite romance novel trope, is there a trope that you absolutely can’t stand.
Michelle Halber: I used to but I used to have these things that I didn't like, like oh please, like again. But yeah, these authors even when they're doing I mean, there is some that I will shy away from unless it’s an author I really, really trust. But there is always the surprise baby, there is always the old love, which turns out to be some of the best books I've read. So I’ve learned not to say no to anything. I'm willing to try it, that’s the neat thing about romance. There is the supernatural with Susanna Kearsley there is Lynsay’s and J.R. Ward is probably right in there for the vampires, right in the ones that Carly would like and there are werewolves and there is historical and it's just there is so much that I’ve learned not to say no to anything I’m willing to try it. But yeah there is a couple I would be like oh, please but not anymore.
Julie Dina: And what about you?
Carly Beveridge: No, there is not yeah, there is not too many that I won't. I mean, again like I said I like it to actually have a story just like any book. I wanted to have a good storyline. If I start reading it and I feel its storyline is weak or the characters just aren't connecting for me I’ll put it down just like when I talk, I told my kids, if it’s a story you’re starting to read it, don't like it put it back. So yeah, I'm willing to try. I’m going to try anything.
Julie Dina: Would you happen to know if any romance literature that has actually made it to the box office and it’s been a big hit?
Michelle Halber: Pride and Prejudice. Is that what you're asking? I mean, Pride and Prejudice is the classic romance. It's not even necessarily again but it’s more about communication and understanding and the different classes and caste system is that they have. But I think a lot of it does come from the Jane Austen beginnings. What do you think Carly?
Carly Beveridge: As far as movies that I can think of like I said Bridget Jones Diary that was came from chick lit some of the others Waiting to Exhale, there is another considered chick lit. More recently, you've got the Nicholas Sparks movies in the books that’s another big draw. Those are considered more contemporary then you got some of your others I'm trying to think of some of your other books that are considered YA.
Michelle Halber: The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
Carly Beveridge: Well, that one is almost like the young adult chick lit you could consider because they has to do with friendships. No, there is another one.
Julie Dina: Twilight.
Michelle Halber: Yeah, Twilight can be considered one, yeah and that one really bridges pretty much several genres. [Laughs] No, I have another one that I'm trying to think of that actually has to do with like it has to do with like Zombies but it's more of like a YA. Now when I can kind of think of is Stardust that came out a few years ago based on an older book but I love that one. Once a great one Robert De Niro’s and that one. Claire Danes and that one too. So that’s a great one if you haven't seen that one. But a lot of many more if they think there is some kind of audience they'll go for it.
Carly Beveridge: Yeah, they’ve even started a smaller company called Passionflix that you can subscribe to which is I know nothing about it, this is not an endorsement. I haven't seen any of their movies. But just to show you I mean romance is romance writing and romance books is a huge market.
Michelle Halber: It is the number one selling genre.
Julie Dina: Really.
Carly Beveridge: And so Passionflix is creating I think their goal is to create books based on and movies based on the books that people are loving that are not necessarily coming out into the theaters that are making it that way. But yet clearly have a huge audience maybe some of them are Robert stuff will be in there. I don't exactly even remember what, who is the authors that are being filmed. But and I don't know how good they’re going to be. But there is a huge market for romance.
David Payne: You think just because people want to escape, is that the biggest reason, does it offer that escape for people?
Carly Beveridge: Yeah, I think for some its escape. I think again it's you’re having more authors that have good storylines, good books. You do have I think the percentage of men who are actually reading romance is still small, but you do have seen a bit of an increase in male writers in the romance genre, which is nice. But yeah, some of its escape, some of its because there are good quality books out there, good series books out there.
Michelle Halber: And a lot of people start by the self-publishing and they can get a lot of I shouldn’t say a lot, a number of them can get into the traditional book publishing system because they have enough of the market. They have created enough of an audience that they have and their books are good. Obviously there is a lot of stuff that wouldn't necessarily be good either but hopefully people will learn to separate that. But because it's such a huge industry and publishing it’s even though something I think New York Times is like taking out their books, the romance stuff from the lists that they’re giving it a try. They’re giving the writing a try.
David Payne: Well, we normally wrap up our podcasts by asking our guests to talk about the book they’re current reading and enjoying or book they recently read and enjoyed. So let me turn to Carly first, romance or not romance.
Carly Beveridge: Oh, gosh, okay. So I'm one of those people who read like two and three books at a time because I’m usually listening to one and I'm reading some. Okay, so one that I’ve got two that I kind of want to recommend. So I just this past year I read Carve the Mark definitely highly recommend that one. You’ve got some romance in there, but you've also got some kind of fantasy sci-fi in that as well. So that’s the great it’s in the young adult and I've seen in the regular kind of adult as well. We’ve got in both and in Montgomery County. So that is a definite recommendation. And the other one I would recommend that I have read not too long ago is Alex & Eliza. It has to it's a historical romance, young adult, and it is fabulous and we have on order the second book that is coming out. And it has to do with Eliza Hamilton and his wife when they are teenagers during the American Revolution it’s really good.
Michelle Halber: This is going to sound funny after we've been talking about the books that end with a happy ending. But my best book of 2017 was actually a young adult titled They Both Die at the End, it's a phenomenal. It talks about its kind of pose at this dystopian world where people are being notified when they're going to die that day. And so it talks about these two different people and how they decide to live their lives. There is a day that they think it's going to be the last day like if they walk out of the house move staying in the house keep them safe and protected and will they survive or if they walk out of the house it’s like these choices that you make.
But the book is actually more about how you live and how you choose to live rather than how you may or may not die. So that was my best book of 2017. Right now my husband and I listening to the audio book of Endurance by Scott Kelly and we are fascinated by that. He is an astronaut who has been in the international space station for over a year and he comes back and he is talking about just the whole process and like what happens to him after and how he goes before it’s fascinating. And then what else am I reading, again a ton because I have X number of books on cloudLibrary, I’ve X number of books on Overdrive.
Carly Beveridge: Me too and audible and yeah.
Michelle Halber: Plus all the children’s books I'm reviewing and meeting for the children’s librarian stuff. So I’m still I got to finish Alyssa Cole’s. I think it's an undivided and that’s why I was trying to Google real quickly while Carly was talking. I think it's an undivided union is book one in her series and so that’s what I’m reading at the moment.
Julie Dina: Well, thank you so much Carly and Michelle for joining us today. I've got to say this was a very fun episode. Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, please review and rate us on Apple podcasts. We’ll love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today. See you next time.