Lauren Martino: Hello, welcome to Library Matters. I'm Lauren Martino and I'm here with my co-host Julie Dina. Hi Julie.
Julie Dina: Hello.
Lauren: And we are also here with Adrienne Miles Holderbaum who is expecting. She is a Senior Librarian at Germantown. Hi Adrienne.
Adrienne Miles: Hello. Hi, excited to be here.
Lauren: And we're also here with Maranda Schoppert who has a very small child; who made a lovely appearance at MoComCon by the way. Hi Maranda.
Maranda Schoppert: Hi guys.
Lauren: So tell us a little bit about yourself Maranda. How old is your baby now?
Maranda: Well, my – I have a baby girl, her name is Lyla. She is almost five months old, doing sort of really good now. We're starting to move our toes and our legs. We have found our feet.
Lauren: Yes, cute.
Maranda: And this is my first baby, so everything is new for me. So we're just enjoying it, me and my husband. We just are so in love with her and it's just fun and tiring.
Lauren: How about you Adrienne?
Adrienne: Sure. I have a daughter who is 3 years old. I'm expecting another baby in May and it’s another girl. The 3-year-old is awesome. She is a lot of -- she has a lot of -- it takes a lot of energy. So being pregnant this time around is very different. I'm more tired for obvious reasons, and it's hard to focus on actually being pregnant this time which is kind of good and kind of bad. Yeah. Like age 3 is like the peak of all your energy you will have in your entire life. It's so much fun. It's like my favourite age for kids. Everything is new and they're able to express themselves, it is awesome. Congratulations and good luck.
Julie: Well congratulations again Adrienne. You're getting a lot of those today. So since both you and Maranda are actually sort of experts in this field, [Laughing] for this episode, could you tell us or give us tips for those who it will really be helpful for as to having a smooth pregnancy especially in the first trimester because I know I had a horrible one for both my pregnancies.
Adrienne: Okay. The first trimester I think resting and taking the time out to rest and not pushing it is really important. I was fortunate enough to not have nausea or like any other symptoms, I just -- I'm very tired at the beginning. So for my second pregnancy it was harder to find time for myself, so asking my husband to take my daughter out of the house or relying on family members too, and then also I like screen time I – it’s been awesome. So put a movie on and like take a little 20-minute catnap, it’s just been awesome. So self-care first trimester just really -- because it's important, it's one of the most important. Each trimester is important but the first is really you need to not be stressed and just rest.
Maranda: While I was nauseous quite a bit. So my biggest help for that was many meals often, string cheese, those little individual prune wrappers, yogurt drinks, peanut butter crackers, anything that you can have a lot at multiple times a day. I totally just skipped any main meal you know. My other advice - practice your smile and nod.
Lauren: That’s awesome.
Maranda: So much advice kept coming my way and after a while I just was like uh-huh, I'm going to smile, I'm going to nod my head. I'm taking your advice and I'm just -- I'm just I'm thinking about it. And that was the sort of saving grace by the time I got to the end of the first trimester, I knew to do that going forward.
Lauren: That sounds like something fun to roleplay at home.
Lauren: Like hit me with your best shot, your most outrageous comment and I'm going to nod and smile.
Maranda: Yeah, I'm going to practice keeping that on my face.
Lauren: So there are a million and one pregnancy books out there and they all conflict. So do you Adrienne have any advice for sorting through them and figuring out which ones you're going to pay attention to and which ones you're just going to dismiss.
Adrienne: So for me I feel like these -- for me I'm more into books that are more holistic and less medically focused. And I think it's important to have the medical knowledge of what goes on with your body and on labor and delivery. But I'm more interested in how our bodies deal with pregnancy and how our bodies are amazing and can do this in a positive and about female empowerment. I think that's really important for me but not for everyone, so for me that's what I kind of use to guide what I'm reading during pregnancy. I like reputable authors of course, so doctors, midwives, yeah people that have done it and around it and had a lot of experience with it.
Lauren: How about you Maranda? Do you have an approach?
Maranda: I kind of went a little bit of a different route. I wanted to find books that were written by medical professionals who are also parents not just moms, dads too that was fine with me. I sort of wanted the play-by-play. I wanted to know week-by-week what to expect. And I also wanted the latest addition. So if there was anything new information out there wise I wanted to know, so that was important to me.
Lauren: Because they keep changing.
Maranda: Yes. You never know.
Adrienne: Yeah, it is so interesting because my favourite book is about like the history like how women have been doing it for like ever and midwife because I'm really into midwifery, so it was about like what they did before was medicalised and what they did at home. So it's so interesting that like your--
Maranda: Well, my hospital sent in a midwife at some point and I was like "Oh, I didn't ask for you, but hi." I mean it was great getting a different perspective but I didn't totally didn’t expect it you know.
Lauren: What's the name of that book Adrienne by the way?
Maranda: Which one? The one that-
Lauren: The history.
Adrienne: Oh, that was Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin. She mentions the history of midwifery but it's not the focus of the book but she does talk about it. And that book also focuses a lot on birth stories -- positive birth stories, because when you're pregnant everyone tells you about the horror -- horrible experiences they have. So that book I didn't read it as much in my first pregnancy; this pregnancy I definitely have been reading it, because I'm like I need to hear the positive birth stories, and you know, the amazing things that our bodies can do to birth the child.
I started watching 'Call the Midwife' when I was pregnant. One episode, I'm like okay and [crosstalk]. I made it to episode 5 and then I couldn't do it anymore. And it was when I was pregnant too. I was like, I just can't, you're strong, I couldn't do it.
Julie: So do either of you have any favourite books for trying to conceive?
Maranda: So for us we went more on the app and article route for trying to conceive. Apps like Glow where you could sort of track and sort of know when your highest times to conceive were. I also used Parents magazine. I read a lot of those articles. And we actually -- I even subscribed for their emails which I still get and are still handy, that kind of follow the ages too which is neat. But I know we have our Parents magazine on RBdigital, so that's something that you guys can get from the library. I also took some advice from people in sort of my same boat from the bump, but definitely the apps were the way that we went.
Adrienne: So I did not read any books for trying to conceive but I did try to make sure I was in a great place physically and emotionally before I had a child. So I made sure that you know, I'm confident and I felt I was very spiritual, so I was like I feel good and you know, I feel like it's a good time to do that. So that was -- and then I just -- we just kind of saw what happened.
Reading this question I was like, “Oh, okay, let me see what books we have in our collection.” And there is a book that is called 'The Impatient Woman's Guide to Getting Pregnant by Jean Twenge, and it was very useful. I wish I did read it because one of the useful things is so simple about like charting your cycles. And I just kind of was more like, "Oh whatever, we'll see what happens." But I think the importance of knowing your conception date in relation to your due dates.
So when I -- I had to be induced because I was post-dates but I wasn't charting my cycle, so I didn't -- this is really TMI [Laughter]. I didn't know like I knew when my last period was, but maybe I was wrong when I actually ovulated, because when you go post-dates then they want to induce you. So I think if I would have known like more accurately how far along I was to give that information to the doctor then it might have been a little bit different.
Maranda: Well, see that's sort of the good things about the apps for us. They kept telling us that we were further along and that the baby was too big and you know, you're definitely you know 10 days further along. And I'm like, "No, we couldn't be. There is no way." So that really helped with my doctor like not changing our due date, so that way we didn't go too far over or too far too soon.
Adrienne: I think that's very useful and I think being aware of that, so using an app or just knowing it would be very helpful during pregnancy.
Maranda: And beyond they are asking you, like those questions all the time when you are at the doctor’s –.
Adrienne: They ask all the time.
Adrienne: I don't remember.
Maranda: Oh god a Tuesday. Yeah, yeah.
Adrienne: So it was less – it wasn't – it was not stressful to like get pregnant for me. But I think that in retrospect I wish I would have paid more attention to that. And I didn't pay attention the second time either cause I didn't read this book.
Julie: Well now that you know about the book maybe you use it for the third one.
Adrienne: Exactly, yeah. Um. Third one?
Lauren: I like what you did there Julie I looked at that one too, yeah, so it's really good about like sorting through like so-and-so says this and so and so say this, this is what we know. This is what we're fairly certain about, follow this advice, you know, sorts through all –.
Adrienne: Yeah it was awesome. Oh it is awesome.
Lauren: So Maranda, do you have anything specific you'd like to recommend for pregnancy. Anything that jumps out at you from everything that you were looking at.
Maranda: Well one of the books that I will say I read cover-to-cover, because the other ones you might have just browsed flipped through a little bit. But the one I read cover-to-cover was the Mayo Clinic Guide to Healthy Pregnancy. This was written by a bunch of the doctors at the Mayo Clinic, all of who had kids of their own. So that was great. And one of the things I really liked about it was like I said it gave you a month-by-month, what happens in month one, what to expect, how your baby is growing. They give you little diagrams and then it also had – it was really great. The layout was just awesome, because if you had any questions about, “Oh I'm having back pain,” just flip to that chapter.
So I didn't have to be overwhelmed by reading the whole book right away. I actually read it like I would read month two during month one. You know, so see what was coming. So I didn't – I could take it little pieces at a time and I didn't have to be like, “Oh my god in eight months I'm going to feel this.”
Lauren: And here's all the horrible awful things that might be happening to you.
Maranda: Yeah I could just live in the moment.
Lauren: How about you Adrienne, do you have anything specific you'd like to recommend?
Adrienne: Sure, there's a couple of books. One is called Bumpology: The Myth-Busting Pregnancy Book for Curious Parents-To-to-Be by Linda Geddes. It was a favorite of mine, its statistics and fact based. It's fun and it answers pregnancy myths we've all heard. And I as a librarian, I really enjoyed it because it was a lot of random information and I like random information. So some of the questions that it answers is, “Can the shape of my bump or anything else predict the gender of my child?” “Why don't pregnant women topple over?” What's more painful.
Adrienne: It talks about your center of gravity and nature is amazing. “What's more painful childbirth or having your leg chopped off?’ “Does having a membrane sweep work as an epidural make a c-section more likely?” “Can prevent sagging breasts, if you wean your child solely from breastfeeding.” So these are questions that you may have or maybe you don't –
Lauren: But everyone is telling you –
Adrienne: Yeah everyone's telling you like the gender prediction of the shape of your–. I hear it all the time.
Maranda: The needle of the belly or you know– oh my gosh.
Adrienne: Right. And I'm like my you know my sonographer is wrong. And so yeah you're right. I can have a boy like I hear that talking all the time. Because, you know, you're carrying like you're having a boy. So I hear that all day long, we’re like–. And I heard it the last time and I had a girl child.
Maranda: Everyone tells you, “Oh you're high,” and then the next person that walks by, “Oh you're carrying so low,” and you’re like no, that’s different views.
Adrienne: Yeah different views. So I think knowing that it really won't – it doesn't matter it’s good. And then another book that really changed my idea of having a child is Ina May’s “Guide to Childbirth” by Ina May Gaskin. So I skimmed it during the first pregnancy. I did not read it cover-to-cover because I took classes, I had a doula and I like – I was like I don't – you know I'll figure it out. And I just educated myself in different ways. But this book I just kept hearing people say ‘It's amazing, it's amazing if you're about holistic birth then you know doing in a different way.’ And I read it and it changed my life about my body. And to read all these positive birth stories from these midwives that have been doing it since the 60s. They have a farm in Tennessee called The Farm. And people would come from all over to deliver their babies there and they live on. It's like a commune sort of, it was started by hippies. But women can go there and it's like they get free care and they have a farm literally where you raise food and then you have your child there.
Some people live there and work there, but I'm very – it’s very hippie, it’s very crunchy. I'm not super hippy or crunchy but I loved it. And there's a movie called the, ‘The Business of Being Born’ that was on Netflix, I don't know if it's still streaming, but it's – they –. So it's production, Ricki Lake produced it – the old television host. But so she has The Farm, Ina May Gaskin the author she's in that documentary. So that's how I was first exposed to this author, because she's a midwife. So they talk about you know the medicalization of pregnancy. And you know it's more about what our bodies can do.
And I had a really difficult first childbirth, because I didn't know what to expect and you don't know what to expect. And I had midwives the first time, and I had a new baby and it just didn't go how I wanted it to go, because I didn't understand really what was going on. I didn't really you know what our bodies could do and what, you know, intuition and the mind body connection and how important it is. And I have examples of, you know, if some of the woman's stressed out how their body reacts with their cervix like opening – it's just so crazy.
But I really found it very empowering and one of the most important messages that she gives is like your body is not a women. So when you have a baby sometimes we're always like troubleshooting the pregnancy like what went wrong or how to avoid what's wrong, but not trusting that our bodies can do this. And sometimes they can't, and sometimes you do need medical intervention and it's totally okay to do that.
But that book kind of made me think differently about how I approach childbirth and labor. I would recommend it to anyone, sounds like –. Even if you are into medical birth I would still read it just so you could get some inspiration.
Julie: I'm inspired.
David Payne: And now a brief message about MCPL’s Services and Resources.
Lisa: How exciting. You're going to be a new mom and we're here for you. MCPL not only has many books and DVDs on this most important topic, but our health databases can help you find the specific information you are seeking. You can find a link to our health resources in this episode’s show notes.
David Payne: Now back to our program.
Julie: So there are a lot of books suggested for moms, you know, and a lot of advice from moms, can both of you suggest or recommend books that are great for expectant dads.
Maranda: Well the book I got for my husband was called “The Expectant Father: The Ultimate Guide for Dads-To-Be” by Brott, my husband very slowly got into this. I think maybe around like the seventh trimester he was like, “Okay I'm going to read these – I am going to start reading.”
But he did become more and more interested as he went along. It has a month-to-month guide the trend here for dads sort of – like just like the Mayo Clinic has for them moms. But it also has a lot of topics that men worry about that maybe women don't have at the forefront of their mind like the finances. A lot of men that's like, “We're having a baby, oh my God I need to start saving so much money.” It talks about that, it talks about balancing work and family. You know what – what to expect that your spouse is going through. But those other things that like come sort of first to their minds. It was a great book for them – for him to look at.
Adrienne: I brought that book to, as I am preparing for this question because my husband didn't read any book. He refused to, but I was like “Oh let me just see.”
Lauren: So he relied on you.
Adrienne: He relied on me, yeah. So I – the expectant father was awesome. I saw that and like even the titles, “What's going on with your partner physically and emotionally, what's going on with the baby, what's going with you as father.” Like I just thought that was awesome.
Maranda: It was one they could definitely flip through. They didn't have to read it cover-to-cover if they didn't want to. But yeah it was a good one.
Julie: So it was made just for dads.
Adrienne: There's another book called “The Birth Partner: The Complete Guide to Childbirth for Dads, Doulas, and Other Labor Companions.” So it's not just for dads it's for any, you know, anyone who's of company or men that's having a baby. I did not read it, but thought that it looked interesting. So I also found one that I don't recommend, but it’s “What to Expect When Your Wife Is Expanding.” Like time is hell. So I came across that.
Maranda: Just for the title –
Lauren: Expanding what.
Adrienne: And one of the sections is, “What is Your Wife Complaining About This Month.” So maybe it works, maybe it works for some men. I don't know, but –
Maranda: Read that one under the covers after –.
Adrienne: Yeah– don’t let your wife – exactly don’t let your wife see you reading it.
Lauren: Maybe there's the random man that's not going to read the other one.
Adrienne: This one honey.
Julie: Yeah there's something for everyone.
Lauren: Right. So in addition to ‘What to Expect When Your Wife is Expanding’ is there any other books or advice that you found particularly not helpful.
Adrienne: [0:20:04] So I think in general any book that tries to scare women into thinking about everything that could go wrong with their pregnancy or their body. And that one that makes pregnancies seem like an illness. Some of them are very like, like, like based on problems, but people would find that useful. I'm not saying that it's not helpful and if you're in that situation it helps. But personally I didn't.
Maranda: [0:20:30] For me I miss a little bit of the opposite of Adrienne. I'm not sent into really the holistic approach or anything I wanted it to be all about me. So any of those stories about -- oh, well, when I was pregnant dah, dah, dah, dah, like okay cool that's fine but I'm pregnant.
And I want my own experience. So that was sort of, I didn't mind hearing a little bit of advice here and there but I kind -- I wanted to know what to expect and more of a grander scheme of things. I didn't want to hear that in the second -- in the first trimester you're going to be super, super sick all the time. But what if I'm not? Like I don't want to be told I was going you know.
So I kind of wanted to sort of see all the sights, I didn't want to just hear one person's story. So anything that was more like seemed more biographical I shied away from.
Julie: So we do know after delivery people bring their kids to story times at the library, which brings me to this question. Do either of you have any favorite books you would recommend to read to newborns?
Maranda: Well, I'm going to tell you my husband's favorite. My husband loved reading to Lyla right off the bat even just like a week or two. I mean she can't even see that, right. He loved reading Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed.
Lauren: [0:21:52] Oh, yeah I remember that.
Maranda: [0:21:39] He loved doing that one. And then once Lyla started you know tracking you a little bit anything with color or numbers, she loves counting anytime you can even if the book doesn't have counting in it. Not about counting at all. You count those leaves on the page like that seemed more interesting than anything else. But yeah, to get those -- get those guys to read Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed you can't go wrong.
Adrienne: I liked that one. That was a good one. So I -- we read Goodnight Moon pretty early to her and loved it and it was the last book we read at night. And we'd say goodnight to everything in the room and the book. And then we'd say goodnight to the room and her actual room and then we put her down and it worked every time. So I have really good memories of that. Pat The Bunny by Dorothy Kunhardt, we don't own it because it's a touch-and-feel book so I imagine it may be --
Lauren: It gets destroyed.
Adrienne: Yeah. We maybe owned it before, but it gets destroyed but she really liked that book too and she was a little teeny baby. So those were the books that I enjoy reading to her.
Lauren: So do you have an idea of when you're going to bring your baby to get her very first library card.
Adrienne: Sure. So I brought my daughter when she was I think like two months or a month to get her first card. This one I'll do the same maybe even sooner. And you know you can bring your child from zero, you take them out of the house. The first place you can bring them is the library to get their own library card. Go to story time. It's never too early. We have the wonderful program 1000 books before kindergarten, so you can start right then getting your kid on her on his or her way to a thousand books for kindergarten.
Maranda: And coming to story time.
Adrienne: And coming to story time.
Maranda: So you get how many seashells just going to story time.
Lauren: [0:23:44] You do. You get so many....
Adrienne: Rack at the seashells.
Adrienne: We started bringing our child when she was six weeks to story time. So it was just. And she was just a little thing and didn't really pay attention but it was so nice to bring her there and she kind of looked at other babies and I would going to do the same with this baby. So yeah we are going to get her a card.
Maranda: We're sharing my card right now.
Adrienne: Which is fine.
Maranda: I just don't want too many to look hang on to at the moment. So when she -- yeah. For right now we're going to share mommy's.
Lauren: [0:24:17] Kind of where we're at in our house too.
Julie: So are there any other programs or resources that you would like to mention that are actually specifically geared toward expectant moms as well as new moms.
Adrienne: [0:24:32] Sure. So we talked about story times three little ones and 1000 books before kindergarten, which is our system wide program to encourage early literacy from zero to five year olds. Also I would say there's yoga classes and meditation classes, which are good if your yoga is good. If you're expecting be careful don't do any of the crazy poses. Prenatal DVDs which I find I really helpful. So exercise or prenatal yoga there's like a prenatal like weightlifting like one that I use. It's awesome.
Maranda: Download your play list off for Eagle for the delivery room.
Adrienne: And when they're -- like all the newborn nursery rhymes too, you have playlists for that. Those are very helpful..
Maranda: We offer for free. And we have our discovery rooms several of the branches have playrooms for the kids that have early literacy toys. So if you're someone like Adrienne and you have a 3 year old and you can have a newborn it's a contained space for them to play and you know maybe run around a little bed and get out some of the energy and you can't lose them.
Adrienne: And also our health databases. So if you have questions about pregnancy you can use. I don't remember the titles exactly right now of those databases but we'll put them in the show notes for you to look at.
Julie: And what's so great about all of this is that we offer all these resources you know and there is something for everyone. And the bottom line is it's free. So on Library Matters we like to ask all of our guests what are you reading right now that you want to tell us about Adrienne?.
Adrienne: [0:25:58] Sure. So reading is something I enjoy and that I don't get to do very often. Having a 3 year old. So aside from lots of picture books my daughter loves Madeline and books with horses and mermaids, and she likes anything with the frozen characters. So aside from that what I'm what am I reading, so I just finished the looming tower by Lawrence Wright. It's so good. There's a TV show, there's a TV show on. Actually it's on Hulu. And this is a book that the show is based on, it's nonfiction. It's about the rise of al-Qaeda. I find it very interesting it talks about the book half of the book talks about the history of the Muslim Brotherhood and history of the Middle East and how you know Saudi Arabia and Egypt and it just it's so interesting to me because I don't know a lot about that region of the world. So I finished that and it was so good that I'm obsessed. Also I just finished a fiction book called The Woman in the Window by A.J. Finn. It is supposedly the Gone Girl of 2018. I finished it. So that's good.
That means it was engaging. I couldn't put it down and I kept reading it. And then so I finished those two but I'm currently reading black flags by Joby Warrick and that's about ISIS. I'm also -- there's a parenting book called There's No Such Thing as Bad Weather. A Scandinavian Mom Secrets her raising healthy resilient and confident kids from -- it's a Swedish name. So this is the title, a Scandanavian Mom's Secret for Raising Healthy, Resilient and Confident Kids (from Friluftsliv to Hygge) and those are Swedish words [Crosstalk] by Linda Åkeson McGurk. And it's about embracing nature and making your kids go out and explore and
Lauren: How about you Maranda, anything you're dying to tell us about?
Maranda: Well it's a go with the baby theme first before my pleasure reading. We're just starting solids for Lyla so I'm we're clueless. We have no idea what to do. So I just checked out the other day Super Baby Food by Yaron. So I'm going to look through that and hopefully get know what to give her next.
We started with avocado thought that was pretty safe and she loves it. But in terms of pleasure reading I sort of like my escapism in my books. Give me a good fantasy any day. So I'm actually reading the book two of The Ancestor. It's called Grey Sister by Mark Lawrence. It's an adult fantasy novel that takes place in this world covered by ice. There is like a 50 mile corridor along the Earth's equator where everyone lives.
And the story follows this pretty violent girl who is training to become a nun.
But these are like Kick-butt Nuns like --
Lauren: [0:29:11] I love stories about Kick-butt Nuns.
Maranda: Think like Harry Potter school meets Mortal Kombat. So it's pretty entertaining and that's a book too so. It's a new release and I'm really enjoying it.
Julie: [0:29:28] All sounds wonderful. So once again I would like to thank both Maranda and Adrianne for joining us today. We really appreciate all the information you've given us. Let's keep the conversation going by following us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on the new Apple podcast app Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. Also please review and read us on Apple podcast, we'll love to know what you think. Thank you for listening to our conversation today and see you next time.
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